SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Things have gotten better for me with time, but not much better.

Super short recap: I found out almost three years ago by finding a motel receipt, it went on for 18 months, he was more than half my age, half her age. We have kids, they were a huge factor in deciding to give it a try because of my upbringing and desire for them not to have to experience that.

My wife has now been the best partner anyone could ever ask for and it keeps getting better.
She cares about me, greets me at the door, wiggles with excitement in my arms (every time it seems).
She is highly sexual, or at least highly playful. Our sex life and her desire for it is so much better than it ever was. She actually grabs "things" and seems all consumed by me, which was never a thing before.

She thinks about what gift to give me, puts thought into it, she gets me things I like spontaneously. She actively listens to me, pays attention and remembers (I talk about a lot of topics, some technical). We spend every night together, every weekend, we do nothing, we do something, it's always together. Even just going to the store to grab one of something. She watches the same shows and movies that I do and she really seems to like them, I can tell because she will talk about them the way I do. She now cooks, cleans and is an active part of the household even though she is the only worker and practically demands that she do it (because I would otherwise without thought).

She asks me if I need to talk, she listens if I do, cries, says sorry, we move on.

She's perfect. I would consider myself the luckiest man alive if it weren't for the gigantic, pierced hole in my chest.

I do love her and I know if I ended it I would not bother finding anyone else, because she is everything I've ever wanted. But it's not the same as it used to be for me, not how I used to look at her and see her and "us". And I think I am sabotaging it because of that feeling, that sense of loss, at least for myself. In addition, I am still trying to "find out" things, get the exact number of times, determine if this was a lie, if that was a lie and I am driving myself crazy over it. Thoughts just pop into my head and they stick there.

She lied a LOT at the beginning, and I found out something new (because of my irritating persistence) just 6 months ago. I know why she doesn't/didn't tell me everything, I even get that she might not even remember certain things or misremember but still...

I have asked her from time to time how she feels about everything and more importantly how she feels about herself and what she's done and it's always really negatively, which pains me to hear, and worries me at the same time.

Is it an act? Is she pretending to get through her pain, her guilt?

I am exactly the same person, I have not changed at all, I am no better or no worse than before, other than paying more attention to things she does, sometimes too intently for my own good, I am the same. The same guy she did this to.

And she is the same person who would text me randomly in the middle of the day and say "I love you so much, I am so lucky you are my hubby" an hour after booking a motel room. The same person who was so good at lying (and taking advantage of my unquestioning and stupid trust) The same person who did things with someone else (not sexually) that she never did with me.

Can she be this new person, the new and improved version of the person I married again? Can someone do all the (vile to me) things she did and come back from that? Love someone she so easily fell out of love with and back again? Or am I just the "new" replacement? Just "next"? Each iteration of her and her personality getting more attuned to a relationship?

Is it some psychobabble about someone wanting to be who they are but couldn't because afraid of seeing real me and needed someone else to bring it out in them and realize it's alright yadda yadda?

I have been to several therapists, mostly it has been a negative experience. My GP (doctor) knows about it because I needed something the first few days and he still tells me, years later, "you're living with the stress point" if my pulse or BP isn't literally perfect.

I am not sure what I am after by posting this, maybe to just let it out? Wonder if anyone else, or everyone else, goes through this and perhaps some light, if there is any at the "end" of the tunnel.

It took me three years to start — to START — to believe in my wife’s actions.

You sound 100 percent normal to me.

At nearly 7-years out, I absolutely believe my wife’s changes. But she does more than be thoughtful and kind. She also learned through counseling why her boundaries were horrible and why she needed validation beyond the M.

Ultimately, we take it personal, because infidelity is as personal as gets. It’s also true my wife shitty choices had nothing to do with me. It was her at her lowest point, not really understanding the difference between love and validation.

Some people change. Most people need motivation to change. My wife was motivated to be a better person, whether or not our M survived, and I chose to stay to see if her changes were real.

Is your WS pretending to be over her pain and guilt?

Maybe not pretending, but putting off some of her healing to focus on healing the M. My wife did that for a while too. But if a WS ignores their own healing, that’s not good — it’s almost always healthier to feel good about ourselves. It was the low esteem/low confidence that made my wife an unsafe partner in the first place.

Trying to rebuild an M is extremely hard. You both have to heal, both have to want the M and your WS has to really do the work to be the changed, after partner you require.

Also, at some point, for me, I had to leave the past in the past. That helped my healing.

At the end of the day, the original deal was broken. It is always up to you to work on a new better M or if you’re done, you’re done.

Good counseling can be hard to find too, but if you find an MC who specializes in infidelity (and who holds the WS accountable), it can be helpful. Our MC made sure my wife had asked herself the right questions about her choices.

Thank you so much for that.

Am I alone in this...

I sometimes feel she doesn't deserve this and instead deserves the (absolute and not subjective) terrible life she would have made for herself.
I sometimes feel she is not worthy of the life and love I can, and always have tried to, give to/share with her.
I sometimes feel I deserve better, not because I am perfect but because I am someone she is not.

It makes me feel really crappy about myself when I fall into that. Letting go almost feels like an affirmation that what she did was ok and while I know none of this is correct or healthy, I just cannot help it.

Your first post, I have no logical answers, just a lot of me too's. Mine confirmed a hotel reservation for a three day getaway with the MOW, the A underground while I believed it was long over, within hours of me having a heart to heart offering to forgive and move forward in an authentic reboot of our marriage, complete with resized rings. Ouch, right?

Is mine love bombing me to save the M, or does he really love me? Does he even grasp what love is, or how to love another person? I have no answers, and am really struggling with who I am living with and what he has done to us, as he is a mystery to me when I was sure I knew him better than anyone. I think I know him better than he knows himself now.

He is perfectly loving, cuddly, helpful, concerned, present, all of it, and it's unnerving because he was for the most part for all of the A. I can't read him very well, but I have learned to identify the tells and to trust my gut when it senses something is off. The truth is, I will never know what is real and what is the act to keep the charade intact, the perfect couple living the dream. I wish I had better answers for you on this one.

As to your second comment, I have felt many of those things regarding my WH's unworthiness of what I have given and continue to offer. It may not be the healthiest, but a necessary part of my climb back to self respect, to realizing what I bring to the table as a partner, my worth as a mate and a person, and the certainty I have now that I did not deserve the relationship or betrayal he forced on me with his lies, any more than he deserves the grace I have given in continuing to try to reconcile.

Have you read or watched any Dr. Stosny on Living and Loving after Betrayal? He focuses on identifying your core values and recognizing your emotional reactions to the pain of betrayal but acting on your values, not your emotions. His book had a lot to do with me reframing the A from I wasn't good enough to what my WH was lacking, and helped me to identify the strengths in myself I was seeing as weaknesses. It is important to get to a point where these thoughts help you identify the good in yourself, and not just a bitter moral high ground. I think it's about the framing, for example, being lied to and thinking at least I'm not a liar to instead letting being lied to help you understand the value of honesty, or the value of sensitivity or kindness, not from a place of pride but empathy, especially for yourself.

I'm not sure if this helps or makes sense, but I wanted to say I have thought the same things as you. I wish you luck working through the maze.

I think almost every one of us betrayed had the exact thoughts you have about whether or not our WS deserve us or our love.

Again, sadly, you’re very, very normal.

Letting go almost feels like an affirmation that what she did was ok and while I know none of this is correct or healthy, I just cannot help it.

My take is that I will never, ever be okay with the A. I will ALWAYS and forever HATE the A. I find it very healthy to NOT be okay with the trauma. Is anyone ever happy they got hit by a car? I doubt it.

What I have allowed myself to do is offer my wife grace.

We don’t owe a WS a last chance. We don’t.

I chose it.

I am glad (now) I chose it.

I have allowed myself to see the changes, to see the good in my wife. I have allowed myself to be in the present with her and aim for a better day each day, and we’ve started to pile up a number of good days.

If you never choose to be all in, again, we don’t owe anything.

You’ll find your path, either way the M goes.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 5:05 PM, Tuesday, March 7th]

thank you whatisloveanyway, that helps.

Oldwounds, "If you never choose to be all in, again, we don’t owe anything." Thanks. That reminds me of advice someone else said to me early on here, I set the timetable, if I decide to walk, I can walk. There is no time limit or obligation no matter how well it goes or how long it's been.

There is no time limit or obligation no matter how well it goes or how long it's been.

Exactly.

There is comfort in letting go of the outcome, or at least there was for me.

It sounds like she's doing a lot of the right things.

I don't think it's any big surprise that you aren't further along in your healing,when you're nearly 3 years out, yet you found out something new,just a few months ago. You have a lot of excuses as to why this is, but if your digging can find something she hadn't told you about, then she could have dug deep, and made sure you knew everything, years ago.

Having a ws who is doing all of the things you've listed is great..however if they're also withholding info, or not working on giving you a complete picture..that's a problem.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:06 PM, Tuesday, March 7th]

Have you sat down and considered, now that you're a few years out, if this may have been a deal-breaker for you? I sometimes get the impression BS's in R seem to think that because they've made the decision to R with their WS, that means there is no backing out. That would be unfair, right? Not so. You are in control, and you can choose if you really don't see R working out for you.

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 7:57 PM, Tuesday, March 7th]

I sometimes feel she doesn't deserve this and instead deserves the (absolute and not subjective) terrible life she would have made for herself.
I sometimes feel she is not worthy of the life and love I can, and always have tried to, give to/share with her.
I sometimes feel I deserve better, not because I am perfect but because I am someone she is not.

It makes me feel really crappy about myself when I fall into that. Letting go almost feels like an affirmation that what she did was ok and while I know none of this is correct or healthy, I just cannot help it.

100% completely understandable. Why should she get both? I can perfectly see why staying with her can be viewed as rewarding her behavior. While there will never be justice, leaving her to her choice and not staying in the marriage seems like something closer to justice than giving her what she wants now. Then again, you may not want to be alone or interested in pursuing a new relationship. Shitty choices all around.

The only reason I couldn’t have written EVERY SINGLE WORD of Particle’s posts in this thread is that it has been nearly five years.

Otherwise, same, same, same, same, same.

WonderingGhost

Have you sat down and considered, now that you're a few years out, if this may have been a deal-breaker for you? I sometimes get the impression BS's in R seem to think that because they've made the decision to R with their WS, that means there is no backing out. That would be unfair, right? Not so. You are in control, and you can choose if you really don't see R working out for you.

I know I can back out and have thought about it a lot of the years. That's not holding me back, not really, I do not feel a sense of new commitment. My commitment was to her "I do" and when that was broken, so was my obligation to my vow. I have previously told her we are only married in the legal sense, not in my mind and heart and while that bothered her, I think she understood.

If it weren't such a messy thing involving a lot of crap/money/time I would have gotten a divorce to start again as just two uncommitted people to make it that much easier if I ever made that decision. It would serve no purpose to remind her of that. The decision is mine regardless.

But Yes (assuming you meant about the "new" thing I found out about), it was a slight crossroads for me, I laid that on the table (for the xth time)

The thing is, I do not think she was doing it on purpose, there is just SO MUCH, and of course I just HAD to go find it all. She treated this person as her new relationship, hidden only because they "had" to, and not just for my sake, so anything goes, and anything was normal. The things she did were thoughtless and cruel to me, but that's from a betrayed perspective, from a single perspective (if she was), it was "normal".

I get that now (someone helped me get past that, mostly) And the issue was something that she lied about early on, not something that was again brought up and lied about again. It was one of those moments where my brain kicked me in the ass and said "hey remember this? That was a lie too I bet"

I think a lot of the things she did she is now genuinely like "wtf was I thinking" and is not only extremely embarrassed and ashamed of but also afraid, like one more thing and he's going to pop kind of thing.

It's hard to think someone is doing something on purpose when they sob uncontrollably and tell you how much they love you and hate themselves... I sometimes think I am the broken one and she is the champion just because of how many times I have had "issues" and how often it all comes to a head for me and yet she still wakes up the next day smiling and with I love yous.

The problem is that it went on for so long (18 months) and I found out so many things that could be or might be that getting it all out in one go, even with a spreadsheet (lol) would have been impossible due to the emotions involved so things went to the side and forgotten about until something reminded/triggered me. So it's not like she is continually lying, it's just that she's not correcting past lies, which isn't really the same when someone is trying to fix what was broken.

I should come in here more often, just talking to and hearing from others helps me see things. It's good to know I am not crazy.

Wiseoldfool

The only reason I couldn’t have written EVERY SINGLE WORD of Particle’s posts in this thread is that it has been nearly five years.

Otherwise, same, same, same, same, same.

How are you doing now, 5 years on?

[This message edited by particle at 8:40 PM, Tuesday, March 7th]

Particle, didn't she give you a detailed time line?

Never2late
Particle, didn't she give you a detailed time line?

No, not in the sense of it being complete and accurate. if she had been "honest" from the start and told me at least the entire scope and the who (no details needed), I probably wouldn't have dug and I probably wouldn't be on this forum.

I was gaslit, then lied to, then smothered, then lied to. (same as everyone else). It took a month to find out the real who, and only because I dug more, which was devastating x2, I was told it was only x long, only x times, only x things. All lies. The first month did not feel (now that I look back) like she was doing anything other than saving herself from a life of misery. The next 6 months were much better but also much worse as I started to find out more and more but I just could not bring myself to kick her out. My children were a HUGE reason we are still together.

So no, I have never received a timeline because now she doesn't remember it all, and I believe that, it's impossible. All I have is a start date (which I still question but cannot prove otherwise) and receipts (which do not tell the entire story). She didn't keep records and to be fair, a lot of the "lies" that I accused her of are omissions that can be attributed to daily routine.

My issues isn't really so much her anymore (even though I mention it), it's me and how I will feel 2,5,10 years from now and if I will still be doing this to myself or will I have an epiphany and be able to let go.

It sounds like you handled this completely wrong.

You really need to follow the advice given here. Hard to find any peace the way you did it.

A detailed timeline the complete truth, etc..

Particle,

I’m almost five years removed from learning, by my wife’s confession, of an affair that was over five years before the disclosure.

If I could delete from my memory the things I learned she did in an affair that was over five years before I found out about it, I’d be blissfully happy with the state of my marriage and my life. Just today we had a great time at lunch. She is very similar to the wife you have, all the improvements you describe post affair.

But, that isn’t how it works. She did do what she did, and I suffered enormously for it at the time she did it. I was unaware of the affair and believed we were just having a really hard time being happily married for a variety of common reasons. But now it all makes sense, doesn’t it? All the pieces fall into the puzzle just perfectly, except not so perfectly, if that paradox makes sense.

So, in still more unfairness to this BH, at what point am I being the asshole for not simply enjoying the life I now share with her?

In 2023, I couldn’t divorce the woman who had an affair, I’d actually have to divorce the wife I have now, who, like yours, is awesome. That would raise it’s own special hell because then I’d have to explain it all to our adult children who do not know, and our families, who don’t know. They might rightfully then wonder "why now?" But I won’t let anyone think I’m just some asshole having a midlife crisis who decided to bail out on the middle aged wife and date younger women, they have to know I have a reason to divorce her.

And then what? Go out and date age appropriate women, almost all of whom are likewise divorced, and sift through them until I find one who fits the description you’ve given of our present wives? One who is fun, loves sex with me, handles her own shit, is a great companion, and so on. So I rid myself of the one actually being everything I want and go look for what, another one to be exactly that, with her own unique baggage, traumas, kids, parents, exhusbands, and so on but unknown as yet to me? And then what, see if we can align our traumas, make stepsiblings and stepchildren out of young adults? Find out later there is some dealbreaker issue with the girlfriend that was long ago resolved or never even present in my marriage? Forsake the wife of my youth and start all over at 55? Shit, I’d have to live to be nearly 90 just to replicate the duration of this marriage.

If I divorce the one who's last overt act of infidelity was a decade ago and go in search of one who is just as good but that didn’t cheat on me (yet), that’s better? At best it sounds like fun for about six months, after that it sounds like hell.

What I wouldn’t give for one of those blinky things from Men In Black.

In lieu of that kind of magic, I read of lot of stoic philosophy and focus on the present, living in this day, not days long gone. And I am content, even if I wish I could change the story.

That’s a long answer. I hope it proves helpful.

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 9:21 PM, Tuesday, March 7th]

Never2late
It sounds like you handled this completely wrong.

You really need to follow the advice given here. Hard to find any peace the way you did it.

A detailed timeline the complete truth, etc..

This is not helpful and while I appreciate anyone's attempt to help, please refrain from telling me I did things wrong. That is as obvious as the nose on my face.

Wiseoldfool
Particle,

I’m almost five years removed from learning, by my wife’s confession, of an affair that was over five years before the disclosure.

...

That’s a long answer. I hope it proves helpful.

Same thought process here mostly. it is helpful. I try to say this to myself a lot.

If she lied early on,and has not corrected those lies, then she is not trying to fix what's broken in her,or the damage she has done to the marriage. You can't heal that damage by allowing lies to remain.

Sobbing is shame..or manipulative.

It's not fixing anything.

What work has she done on herself to become a safe partner?

Also..of course you "had to" start digging,and question something she told you. It seems she lied a lot,then did nothing to correct those lies. It is not your fault that you are trying to figure out exactly what happened. It's completely normal.

It sounds like she's been love bombing you. It also sounds like she is ashamed of her actions. That doesn't mean she is safe,and that you are stuck indicates you know that.

It's ok to hit reset. It's ok to tell her you want a full timeline. It's ok to make requirements for you to continue attempting reconciliation. If you've been rugsweeping,it's ok to stop.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:38 PM, Tuesday, March 7th]

This is not going the way I had hoped so I am going to step away again.

Thanks for the advice all.