SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My husband and I have been together for 10yrs (2nd marriages). Almost 3 yrs ago, I caught him kissing another woman and exposed a two month long affair. He immediately cut it off. We went to counseling for several years. He’s doing most everything expected and asked (which is not his usual way). However, I cannot move forward and our counselor recently told me I am still in the discovery/crisis mode.

My digging shows they were exchanging I love you’s two weeks in. He is adamant it wasn’t physical (I do not believe this but has no definitive proof aside from common sense). He will say there was no emotional connection; that he only said I love you because she said it (whatever). He is also adamant he had never thought of cheating on me. Never once looked outside our marriage.

Cheating, lying is a dealbreaker for me. Always has been and he knows it. I am very black and white with little room for gray. There is right and there is wrong. I don’t do drama and will walk away. It has been very difficult the past few years as I struggle with this part of me too. I am a confident woman. I am successful on my own and do not need him financially. We do not have children together so that is not a consideration. In my mind, the decision making should be much easier since I do not have those additional concerns.

What holds me here? Three months prior to the affair, one of his adult children passed away unexpectedly. I have no children of my own and cannot fully understand his grief. This woman approached him and away he went. The counselor said it was a perfect storm. He hates attributing the affair to any emotional grief he was going through or considering it part of his "why" however, the counselor believes a mitigating factor.

I have really struggled these past three years and feel as if the only way to heal is to leave him. But, as soon as I get to that point, I question whether his grief and the approach/opportunity really was the perfect storm. Am being a cold-hearted, selfish bitch by not giving grace? I love him and feel deeply for his loss but I cannot get over the fact he turned to someone else during a very painful time. He said I love you to another woman. I also do not believe there was no sexual contact when he completely stopped having sex with me. We have always been 3-4 times per week our entire relationship; even after the death of his child – until he met her.

No real question. Maybe I am just looking for viewpoints one way or the other given the delicate circumstance.

The counselor said it was a perfect storm.

I personally HATE that term. In the movie/book/real life story regarding that title, Billy Tynes (George Clooney character) made several risky if not downright stupid decisions that placed himself and his crew inside the "perfect storm" and led to them being killed. I believe the same to be true of "perfect storm" affairs, the "stars aligned and they cheated" or any other such "blame deflection". Yes, people can be more vulnerable. It’s still a conscious choice.

Also, kissing IS physical infidelity. "I love you" is emotional infidelity. Just "returning the phrase"? Please. You have every right to feel the way you do based off this alone and the denial/blameshifting. Does it have to have gone sexual for you to feel betrayed or do you already? Going from 3-4 times per week to stopping during THAT specific timeframe may be circumstantial but it IS telling.

Were you betrayed or not? That is for YOU to decide and any reaction you decide is proper.

Very rarely are affairs not physical, when distance isn't a factor.

Have him take a polygraph.

Also, the mc is basically excusing his behavior. It was a perfect storm? So..what? Every time someone sadly passes, he will cheat?

It's ok that this was a dealbreaker. It's ok not to go against your own values, and stay with a man who showed an incredible lack of respect and love for you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:46 PM, Monday, January 29th]

Welcome to SI. I'm sorry you qualify for membership, but since you do, I'm glad you found us.

I see lots more gray than black and white, and I'm happy about that. Are you happy about being a black/white person? You may be staying because you're thinking there may be some gray in the world. Maybe deep inside you're thinking it may be worth some drama to be with your H.

I do not mean that I think you should R. I mean that, IMO, your best bet is to ask yourself new questions and try on some new attitudes for size.

I have really struggled these past three years and feel as if the only way to heal is to leave him.

Gently, it's possible to R and really put your H's A behind you. My reco is to give yourself permission to leave and to stay. You can't really say 'yes, IMO, unless you can say 'No,' too.

I'm sorry you're struggling. You really do have a difficult decision to make - you've got decades of your life depending on what you do. You've been traumatized. Big decision can lead to struggling.

You may really want to leave, but the fact that you're not giving yourself a choice may be holding you back.

But, as soon as I get to that point, I question whether his grief and the approach/opportunity really was the perfect storm.

That's about him. Mitigating factors don't change the fact that you've been betrayed. Sympathy for your H is separate from your need to decide what you will do.

Not so BTW, kissing is physical.

Am being a cold-hearted, selfish bitch by not giving grace?

You know the answer better than anyone here does, but choosing to end an M after being betrayed is totally, absolutely, eminently OK.

Some ideas to try out:

Nothing you did or didn't do caused your WS to cheat.

Focus on your own healing before forcing yourself to make a decision. The better you feel about yourself, the better the decision will be - and being betrayed is a major attack on one feels about oneself.

Being kind to yourself will probably lead to a better decision than beating yourself up.

When you notice yourself blaming yourself, you'll probably help yourself by figuring out what you're feeling - anger, grief, fear, or shame - and comforting yourself.

At the top of the 2nd page of the Just Found Out forum you'll find a number of threads with bull's-eyes next to the title. I urge you to look at them. They offer a lot of good info that may help you figure out what you want to do.

Also, the 1st thread in the Wayward Side forum may help you identify how good a cadidate for R your H is.

My last reco is to make surviving and thriving your goal. Then choose the best way to do that.

Thank you all.

I have been considering seeing a different counselor with infidelity experience on my own. To deal with my own inability to make a decision and/or stop with the constant mind movies. Part of me resists because this is his mess. But, the part of me that thinks about it every single day wants it to stop. The current counselor essentially said it is my own choice to stop. Like I just turn it off by choice.

The counselor was originally for discernment counseling about 2 months after discovery. It was my idea to make sure I had considered everything before leaving. A one-time deal turned into long term counseling. There were times we went alone but mainly we went together. Funny, reading that back it seems I wanted him to know I did everything right. I did everything possible for us when he didn't.

I agree about a polygraph. You need an expert, however.

Grief does do terrible things to people but the I Love You is telling. You will need to live with whatever you choose so think carefully. We were young when my husband cheated and we have a good marriage but it has made me somewhat obsessed with people who cheat and the horror of it all. It is so terrifying to have the abuse come at you. You wonder why over and over. Mine was a long time ago but you can see I have been on here a few years. Some of these veterans can give you great info that I can’t. I didn’t confront for years.

The mitigating circumstances that you might look at are how long did it last, how did it start, and who ended it. How did you find out, and if you were lied to(trickle truth). One thing that comes across over the years is that people get angry or over it at about the five-year stage. Either they have moved on enough to enjoy life again or they’ve decided after five years they’re never going to heal and they leave. Of course some are left.

I hope you are caring for your health. No alcohol, healthy food and enough sleep. Dr needs are for anxiety and depression.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 7:33 PM, Monday, January 29th]

You caught him kissing her; in my book, that's a physical relationship, whether or not sex was involved, which there probably was.

As for whether you're not extending him grace, the measure of one's character isn't how well they behave when everything is great; it's how they act when faced with adversity. So if your husband's reaction to the death of his child was to hook up with the first woman that winked at him, how are you to have any faith in his commitment to you when life hits you with horrible blows in the future?

He will say there was no emotional connection; that he only said I love you because she said it (whatever).

If he told the OW I love you but didn't mean it, then he was lying to her. If he did love her, then he's lying to you. The only thing you can be sure of in this situation is that he's a liar... he will lie if he thinks he can get something he wants, whether its attention from and/or sex with the OW or forgiveness from you.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 9:46 PM, Monday, January 29th]

The Healing Library is full of great information, too. I like to mention it because the list of acronyms we use is there, and sometimes the acronyms can be confusing.

Sorry that you had to find us. I agree that kissing is physical and I have a hard time believing it didn't go farther. Unfortunately, cheaters lie a lot and when distance isn't an issue, then it usually has gone physical.

An A isn't a mistake. It is a set of choices made that lead to the cheating. Death in the family, job loss and other major stressors can be a mitigating factor, which means the person may be more at risk of cheating but it no excuse. He could have chosen to speak to you, but he didn't.

No, you aren't being cold-hearted in the least. If cheating is a deal-breaker, then it's a deal-breaker. If you want to choose R, make sure your WH is a good candidate.

He should read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. It's fairly short and provides a good blueprint. I used it to gauge if my XWH was doing the work to become a safe partner. (Spoiler alert: He didn't do the work.)

Another good book is Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. There's a lot of good info in the book. One that was helpful to me was about windows and walls. It discusses transparency between the two married people (placing windows) and setting boundaries with people outside of your M (placing walls). My XWH had crappy boundaries, so I used the information in the book to see if he was working on establishing better boundaries.

Good luck and keep posting.

However, I cannot move forward and our counselor recently told me I am still in the discovery/crisis mode.

I suspect this may be because you don't have what to you is a satisfactory understanding or explanation for what the affair was. If you do not understand it, how can you possibly trust he has learned/grown from it such that you can begin to feel safe in the relationship. A lot of the time here we talk about WHYS. Lots of BS hear "whys" and think that this as an excuse or a minimization of an A, but for me, I think it's a narrative that helps you understand where shit went off the rails and what needs to be fixed in order for the spouse to become a safe partner. He says it wasn't physical, he says it wasn't emotional, he says he never had thoughts of cheating on you or looked outside your marriage (I assume you mean plans, because obviously this was both of those).......so then what WAS it? How do you understand it? You say the counsellor is saying this, what is HE saying?

Look, I've never met either of you, but I'll take the counsellor at their word that it was a contributing factor. I don't' like the terms "mitigating" because it denotes the idea that it somehow made the A less bad. Nothing makes what he did less bad - not for you. I very much understand my own husband's A as being a bit of a perfect storm of circumstances mixed with shitty coping mechanisms and although I don't think the A would have occurred under different circumstances, that doesn't make it one bit more "okay" to me. Although the circumstances weren't my husband's fault, I'm not cool being in a marriage where I have to worry about my spouse cheating every time life gets a hard? He can't just say it was because of the death of a child and have that be the end of it. Cheating on your spouse is not the normal response to trauma. What is it about him specifically that caused him to react this way?

Am being a cold-hearted, selfish bitch by not giving grace? I love him and feel deeply for his loss but I cannot get over the fact he turned to someone else during a very painful time.

No. Infidelity is always a dealbreaker. You said it yourself. This was a dealbreaker for you. You can feel empathy with what he went through, without excusing the actions. You are not obligated to give him grace - no one is entitled to that, regardless of the circumstances. I get that it is hard because I'm sure his own hurt around his child has eclipsed your own.

My IC would tell you my affair happened in a perfect storm because she said it to me, in different but equal words.

My husbands affair could be considered a perfect storm, that he crumbled under the trauma of my infidelity.

But, like others say, that is not an excuse to cheat. It does not obligate you to continue the marriage, enough time has past that you probably have an excellent idea of if it’s something you can provide grace over.

But the definition of grace is undeserved favor. Meaning it’s not owed, you have no debt to him. You even gave it a lot of time to feel sure. That in itself was grace. I certainly couldn’t keep going if the other person doesn’t even have the guts to admit everything that happened. It says to me they are not interested in fully restoring their integrity. And they are willing to make you feel like you are crazy. And they still haven’t learned how to respect their spouse. That would be a no for me personally.