SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi All,

It's now 4 months since DDay, and about 6 weeks since the real story / depth of what happened came about.

WS had her 2nd IC session finally, especially after now me knowing a lot more, and the outcome of that was to ask me if I was okay with the concept of an Open Marriage (I didn't loose my shit, but did highlight a lot of things where this wouldn't be.. it would be a poly amorous [since she informed me that she used the L word with this guy as well... sigh] and a bunch of other things.) The task on her post that session was to do a pro/con list etc (this was early September). Originally I wanted that outcome and choice before our anniversary (like 12 days later) but my IC went thats impossible, you are going to have to suffer a bit and wait til towards end of year to find out her choice on the various options on what SHE wants [Choose me, Choose him, choose to have open {i won't}, choose neither, can't choose {i walk})

Our wedding anniversary was on the 23rd it was so weird and awkward, and tbh I walked away feeling like I was doing way more of the effort ... I had arranged flowers, two cards (a letter to burn which had some of my feelings.. and then a nice custom card I made myself with photos of us) - a paint by numbers activity all setup, a beginner salsa class. Her... some activity idea which she had to cancel for weather - a brunch activity and a card, and a origami heart with reasons why she loves me on it... but it was rushed.. it was her coming out and seeing the setup I had done, that made her rush to get her stuff done (though she had brought the card already). Her reasoning is cause we were going away on holidays a couple days later (hence no big plans - even though I had asked her originally to plan out our anniversary).

At the same time as this, for some reason the kids had seen a bunch of cheater revenge stuff on YouTube and going on and on about how evil cheaters are, and me having to sit there and try to explain sometimes people just make mistakes etc ... and going in my head... well you dont know about your mother etc.

We've just gotten back now from holidays since the 26th September, and I struggled a lot at times -I just felt... flat.. I couldn't really enjoy a lot of moments, the most fun I had was when I was doing things with the kids and her not around etc.

I burst into tears at one point, and she was like why you thinking about this now, we are on holidays etc etc

She is still being affectionate, we are still being intimate etc - but it still just feels like everything is the same way of talking / reacting etc as she was both before and during the affair.

I found my paranoia kicked in a lot as well, when she went for a walk etc at one of the hotels I couldn't stop thinking, is she trying to call him etc. She's gone off to the shops atm, to return stuff.. but its been a couple hours and my paranoia on where and what she is doing is high [though she promises me there has been no contact since June 20]

In fact on the trip I found myself getting so angry at times, here she was having fun, smiling, like everything is okay - where everything is far from okay - where I just couldn't stop thinking about aspects of the situation and what the future options would be.

I know holidays (with kids as well) aren't the place to have these discussions, and do reconciliation - so a lot of this just had to be parked / festered - but it just made the holiday so.. grey at times - it felt way to early to be doing this trip together.

So now that we are back.... my questions really are

- what should my WS really be doing to demonstrate shes keen for repair, reconciliation & healing?
- how frequently should we be seeing IC ? (I have had 4 sessions to her 2 so far) [And i think she feels I need it more than her..]
- what are some of the recommendations on healthy boundaries etc? How do I make sure I clearly communicate these without it being attack / defensive
- Do I need to communicate more on timelines on outcomes / decisions [see below]

At this point I feel like she's thinks that heart thing with the reasons she loves me is her way of showing choice, that she hasn't actually done her pro/cons - that shes taking what she thinks is the path of least resistance, and less disruption to life, kids etc.

I have her birthday next week (which I have already arranged a tonne for), my birthday is 2 weeks after (and I really think she won't do heaps .. and then won't understand why I would be so upset)

In my mind I know around December 1st I am going to have to confront her about this - and she will end up being shocked etc and if she has no plans or thinking about what her plans or reconciliation are.

We have a tonne of changes coming in with work, and she is going back to 4 days in the office - and the reasoning is training new staff members... (the pretend excuse she was giving me last time to go to the hotel.. but I have seen the messages with her peer where they are complaining about their manager insisting on all of this).

Overall I am feeling lost, confused, no idea on the direction we are going - angry that it feels like she is just going to get away with this - no idea on what my feelings really are for her anymore or anything.

Sorry for this being a bit rambling.. tired, already back at work - and just meh

Wait a sec, am I reading this right? You’re staying around while she decides if she wants to stay with you or leave to be with the AP?

Sorry - she had ended things with the AP - but confessed she still had feelings etc (that NRE etc - and the fact that was something without domestic, household blah blah)

I had put the element to her that she needed to be clear on her choice, and that she was to choose me for me, not just cause of kids, financials etc

As i said to her, the reason why she asking me about Open (after her IC had mentioned it) was cause it was a Win/Win to her - every other situation has her losing out on something.

So no - I am not waiting for her per say to choose AP or not - but for her to be more decisive, communicate what it is she really wants - so I dont have to be sitting here all this time wondering if its just cause its easier etc, or cause of the kids.

Yes if this ends up with us getting D, it will be a *** time for the kids, but they will survive, they know plenty of kids from D'd families (including their cousins).

I am just feeling still that shes just going with the flow, as opposed to putting in actual effort, prioritizing the marriage and us

Has she read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald?

Frankly, she should be doing everything to make you feel safe, she's working to become a safe partner, and doing everything to convince you to stay in the M.

She didn't make a mistake. A mistake is forgetting to grab a gallon of milk at the store. She made a series of conscious decisions to lie and to betray you.

Your paranoia and anger? That's betrayal trauma. It's a real thing and you need to work through it to heal.

Her issues are totally different and she does need IC to deal with her whys. She needs it just as much as you do. It isn't a competition about who needs it more. If she's resistant to IC, that should be a red flag.

If your kids have found YouTube videos, they probably know. What you are doing is the blue print of what they'll do. You are their role model. What would you like your children to do in the same situation?

Has she read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald?

Frankly, she should be doing everything to make you feel safe, she's working to become a safe partner, and doing everything to convince you to stay in the M.

She didn't make a mistake. A mistake is forgetting to grab a gallon of milk at the store. She made a series of conscious decisions to lie and to betray you.

Your paranoia and anger? That's betrayal trauma. It's a real thing and you need to work through it to heal.

Her issues are totally different and she does need IC to deal with her whys. She needs it just as much as you do. It isn't a competition about who needs it more. If she's resistant to IC, that should be a red flag.

If your kids have found YouTube videos, they probably know. What you are doing is the blue print of what they'll do. You are their role model. What would you like your children to do in the same situation?

I have given her the book, but I really dont know if she had read it - she was burying her head in the sand til early September cause she had a much more tamer story of what the affair looked like then reality.

And yes, this is more then a mistake, it was constant decisions on her behalf, and yes she was going thru shit with her dad having a terminal illness and yes she was vulnerable, but it doesn't excuse it - and I am beyond trying to justify her behaviour.

I think this is the issue "doing everything to convince you to stay in the M." I think she thinks that cause I said we should work on this, that is a given, I don't think she realises just how much more I am considering what life looks like now not together.

RE: Kids - I suspect they stumbled onto those due to the shared youtube account, and its picked up stuff from other algorithms,the kids and I have REALLY open conversations about a lot of things, you name it - atm they just think its funny the way those stupid videos do revenge things, like lets drop a piano on their car kind of sillyness - as opposed to anything.

I have spent a lot of hours with them 1:1 recently and had several D&Ms on all sorts of topics but this one hasn't come up - and thats prob due to all the 'normal' / 'romantic' stuff they have been seeing me do recently - aka the anniversary, them knowing the plans for her birthday etc. Me getting them involved in that process - thats the hope anyways - i have seen no behaviour shifts with them in their attitudes to us or to her.

In regards to approach, I hope I am modelling positive behaviours - I know eventually this will come out - and they have seen the nightmare of my sisters divorce and the impact to their cousins - hopefully my actions are ones they can be proud of me for

Win/win for her. I'm sorry but that's just too funny.

She is a cake eater and wants to have her cake and eat it too. Any other arrangement and she "loses".

She is just a run of the mill selfish cheater.

Yeah my xwh also decided he was "poly" after he cheated on me. Then spent several months researching how to get me on board with him "dating" his teenage "twin flame"

Funny enough he had looooaaads of time to research how to make me okay with that, but somehow had NO time to read any books on affair recovery, or how to help me, or how to fix himself. He thought IC was stupid, thought reading any articles I sent him was annoying, and found my feelings very inconvenience to deal with.

I spent 6 months beating my head against the wall before I admitted the truth to myself; I don't want an open marriage. I don't want to share my spouse with someone else. And then critically admitting that he didn't have it in him to fix what he broke when he chose to cheat. Those were very hard admissions but also relieving in a way cus they gave me a way to move forward.

From what I've read on this thread your ww has put in about 2% of the effort she should be doing. She should be reading every book, blog, website under the sun about what she needs to be doing for you to help you heal. She should be listening to every podcast, every YouTube video on the same. She should be giving you completely unfettered access to her phone, her social media, her emails. She should be doing everything in her power to be transparent with you. She should be keeping you informed of her plans and whereabouts. She should not be defensive or acting nonchalant about your feelings. She should be open to non-defensively answering any and all questions you ask, and she should be proactively bringing the A up for discussion and providing a detailed timeline. She should be 100% NC with the ap and should be able to prove that any time you ask. She should not be blaming you, or her dad's health, or work, or [fill in the blank] for her decision to cheat. She should be actively pursuing IC. And she should be doing all of the above ON HER OWN.

Of course even the most ideal candidate for R isn't perfect and will have slips, but the ideal candidate should be doing most of that list all day every day to the best of their ability. If they aren't? Well it's not R, that's for sure.

I think you need to really soul search and think about what YOU want. What you want from her and what you want from your M. And then tell her. If she won't listen, doesn't care, or isn't willing... that's kind of all you really need to know.

Sending you lots of hugs. So sorry you find yourself here.

Personally, I think it's time you told her that from what you're seeing from her so far that you aren't going to make it as a married couple. After she fails to live up to your example on your birthday at least. Don't get in a debate about it. When she questions it, just restate that if she doesn't figure out how to put in the effort to fix herself and what she broke the end result will be D. The open marriage question was totally tone death. That she even considered it an option shows she has no consideration of the amount of pain and destruction she has already heaped on you and her family.
I would also suspect that she has never invested as much as you into the relationship. Everything else describes her behavior as selfish and low effort in her relationships. That was certainly a partial cause for her A. If that behavior doesn't shift, she will do it again. If not with her last Ap with another.

Gently, you're acting as if she - a betrayer - is the prize. In fact, she's not - you are, and she doesn't realize it.

One thing a WS who wants R should be doing is to help define the new, post-A M. She's doing that. Right now it looks like you want monogamy, and she doesn't. That's a big misfit.

My recos:

Do not stifle yourself.

Do not force yourself into a resolution you don't want.

Do not try to force your W into a resolution she doesn't want.

put the birthday stuff aside for now and keep it for someone who sees a monogamous M with you with you as a giant win, not as a loss.

Act in your own best interests.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:27 PM, Tuesday, October 15th]

I agree with the others. Sorry you are dealing with this situation. As sisoon aptly stated: "act in your own best interests". Or my take: always value yourself. This is not rocket science. On your wedding day your WW vowed to be faithful as long as you are married regardless of the status of your M. Happy, disconnected, feeling loved or ignored, distant or close, it doesn’t matter, she vowed to be faithful to you. She failed you and your children. Nothing you did or didn’t do in your M justified her cheating. She had lots of legitimate options to address any marital issues without cheating. She is broken and needs to work on her own issues that allowed her to cheat. You decide what your boundaries are and if she doesn’t meet them, always value yourself. Good luck.

I think you’re right that she’s barely doing anything because she’s convinced you aren’t going to leave. The open relationship idea would have thrown me for a loop and being honest, that would be the end for me.

Absolute audacity for her to even speak those words.
I think you won’t see any appreciable movement from her unless you start the divorce procedure. Make this shit real for her. You can always pause it anytime you choose. But it will either get her ass in gear, or show you that she doesn’t really care for you, regardless of her words.

So no - I am not waiting for her per say to choose AP or not - but for her to be more decisive, communicate what it is she really wants - so I dont have to be sitting here all this time wondering if its just cause its easier etc, or cause of the kids.

Sorry, but could you please clarify what you mean by this?

It reads like you are saying that you will not wait for her to make up her mind, but yet you will wait for her to make up her mind.

Gently now, it looks like you have gotten yourself in a loop that you will never get out of. What could help you out of your loop is to make the decision for YOU and your KIDS. Leave your WW out of the decision making.

If she want s to continue a life with you and your kids, then she will make her own decision to follow (or not).

but confessed she still had feelings etc

Hell to the NO!

Right now she's living the best of both worlds.

Someone else may have already asked this but

Why are you waiting for her to decide what she really wants? Like even for a nanosecond? You are her husband and must be the only choice. Do not wait for her to make a decision; do it for her. Take steps to get out of infidelity. Let her know you aren’t plan b or a second choice/option.