SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I may be stupid for worrying about this at this stage of life but need some expert opinions. I'm sorry for the length.

My wife and I have been together since 1986, in various statuses. She’s 64 and I’m 61. We were neighbors in an apartment complex. Though I was interested in her romantically pretty much from the start, she had only FWB status to offer. I shamefully took what I could get and bided my time. She was freshly divorced, had a kid, and was running wild using drugs, etc. We both had other "friends," but I started ending my other attachments in order to pursue her. She did not.

Back then, when I would ask her for a date, she’d decline with an excuse: "I don’t date Sailors" was a common refrain. Though, she did go on dates with other Sailors and Marines as well as an Officer in her command, a UCMJ violation. She was an enlisted reservist, he, an active-duty fighter pilot. These dates, by her admission, always included sex. She told me other things about her behavior back then, some of it probably meant to shock and maybe shoo me away. My assessment is that I was not her physical type but was useful in various ways and she favored me with occasional sex in exchange. I’m short and have never been any woman’s 1st choice. I understand. I have other qualities that you have to get to know me, to know about.

At one point she completely froze me out. She was "passionately in love with" a Recon Marine. Okay, I lost. It happens. A few months later she started paying attention to me again. She told me that things were ending with the Marine and wanted me to watch her kid for a day while she drove a hundred miles to collect her stuff. I did and she was gone for 2 days. Sometime later she accepted a date request and thereafter we became a couple. At one point, I asked her what changed. She had asked a friend if she should give a "guy like me" a chance. Her friend said "yes, they try harder." I took that to mean not very attractive men, like me. Didn’t put much thought in it at the time. I seemed to be winning. We dated for a while. She and her son moved in with me in 1988 and have been together since. My proposal that she move in was based entirely on economics. She accepted and I had a family. We moved from the apartment and into a rental house. At one point she applied and interviewed for a job on the other side of the country. She didn’t take it but had she, that would have been the end for us. Looking back, our relationship seemed optional to her. However, we bought a house in 1991 and married officially in 2004. I fathered her son since he was 4. He’s now 41.

Some of the shocking things she told me back then were: She hung around with Sailors and Marines when she was in HS. Lost her virginity in a gang rape while drugged (she’s the victim in that though feels she left herself open to it.) She gave OS to sailors, on the flight line. She dated men just to eat and sex was the price. She was quite broke back then. She had a two-week, constant sex fest with one Sailor while on ACTDUTRA (reserve 2 week detachment.) They traveled to Falon in his car and stopped often to... She began her dating relationship with the fighter pilot on that det., overlapping the enlisted Sailor. Her reserve time overlapped the tail end of her marriage which means so does the other activity. It was a bad marriage and divorce. He has a long criminal record for DV, not just her. After she finished her reserve commitment, she worked for a company doing field service on office equipment. I also took that job when I left the Navy 2 ½ years later. I know how free and unsupervised that job was back then. You could literally disappear for half a day without notice. She was using speed at the time, getting it from a co-worker and traded sex for drugs. All of that was back then and mostly disclosed to me. However, as a boyfriend and later husband, the story is much cleaned up and she "doesn’t remember" either telling me that stuff or the particulars of those events. I think she does remember, just doesn’t want me to.

Okay, the meat of my concerns: I became obsessed with some videos on FB that are AI narrations of reddit stories about cheating wives. That has caused me to think and re-open these discussions. I’m now off of FB for months but the concerns and discussions remain. Though the flight line stuff, enlisted sailor and fighter pilot all predate even my FWB arrangement, the Marine, co-worker and I, overlap somewhat. Though she cut me out completely for the relationship with the Marine, which is legit. He ended it with her. She says the drug exchange thing ended before we started dating. But, she also says she remembers doing the last of those drugs in my apartment but "can’t remember" when that was, relative to our relationship. The "Sailors" on the flightline became only one and only once. The Marine was not that serious, never even met her kid. Only had sex with the drug guy once. I know all that is BS. It turns out, though she didn’t work with the drug guy directly, he did continue to work at that company. Previously the story was: he got fired. I do not know, and she won’t say, when the drugs for sex thing ended. I don’t remember her being a tweaker or at least not strung out during those 2 ½ years that I was still a Sailor. She occasionally used with my civilian friends when visiting my home town. I just cannot know if the sex for drugs continued. She told me back then, that SI and OS occurred in her apartment and in their company cars, on meet ups. I don’t know when it ended. The fact that the story has been changing to less and less salacious over the years, makes me assume the worst.

The other question I have regards a very good friend of mine from HS. A Submariner in this period. I was on shore duty for the most part. He had a key to my apartment for when he was in port and later our rental house. During our FWB period, he also spent time alone with her and once commented to me that: "that chick is a slut!" I didn’t enjoy hearing that but had no claim at the time. He didn’t know my level of interest. When she and I commenced a relationship, he never spoke like that about her again. Years later, I was going to sea for carrier quals and she dropped me off at the ship. I was supposed to be gone for two weeks but we did a bunch of load-on work and then got liberty for 8 hours. I got a ride home. He was there, which is not unusual, but they were surprised to see me and it seemed like I had interrupted something. They were fully clothed and in the living room, but it was strange. He’s been out of our lives for 30 years or so now. Lives a long way away. I called him once to ask and he denied ever having any sexual contact with her. So does she. Both, using exactly the same words. Given that I knew both of them and their habits back then, this seems unlikely. My friend was probably the most successful "ladies man" I’ve ever known, she willing to have sex with nearly anyone, at least when we met.

I don’t have any indication of anything going on with her since about 1990 and I may be imagining some of what I think might have happened. Neither of us were angels when we were younger. We’ve built a great life together and I’d say our relationship is now the best it’s ever been. I don’t know why this long past stuff still haunts me. Should it, or am I an idiot? I think the full truth would make me feel better, but it might also make me feel worse if confirms my worst suspicions. That would be fresh injury for me.

So, Idiot? If so, how do I quiet my mind about this stuff?

Idiot.

You are not wrong to question things that you once accepted.

She didn’t try to hide anything and was open about her before marriage lifestyle.

I don’t know if she cheated with your friend. You can torture yourself about it — but you have no real concrete proof (though I don’t doubt your gut reaction is probably spot on).

She was wild. You knew it. You were okay with it because you really wanted to have a relationship w/ her.

At this point I think you have to just have acceptance of it all.

Are you in IC (individual counseling)? It sounds like you may need some help processing through the emotions.

It is possible that she doesn't remember what happened. I used to work with a guy who said he couldn't remember 2 years of his life when he was using drugs & alcohol.

You may never get the full truth because she may not remember. Not only do drugs & alcohol cloud the memory, but the passage of time can make recall of details difficult.

I'm sorry this is hurtful to you.

Your relationship now is the best it’s ever been?

Sure about that?

My sense is that you want to know more about "then" because you are uncertain about "now."

But there’s a very good chance I’m wrong. If so, it’s up to you to figure out why you are troubled now, after 35 years of a stable relationship.

Maybe if you can figure that out, you can put the troubling thoughts to rest.

You're not an idiot. You're just human.

If life is settled and happy now, and you knew in real time that her behavior was problematic, she wasn't into you, and that she was essentially using you for security, what's to be gained by diggin' up bones? She must have fallen in love with you somewhere along the line, and hasn't given you cause to worry for 35 years, right?

Memory is flawed anyway. The memory of someone who was on drugs at the time is even more flawed. The brain is a hunk of electrified meat and it does weird things. Yours is currently fixated on cheating videos. I think it'd be a good idea to work on changing your algorithm to put a stop to your pain shopping. Maybe some funny dogs, or cooking videos. My H loves watching people smoke meat. Does that appeal?

Formerpeopleperson,

I know what brought up the concern. My father appointed me to be his successor trustee. We haven't had the best of relationships due to his wife who is now severely ill with dementia. I now know what inheritance will look like and it's substantial. The basis of our initial relationship was me, rescuing her financially. Our wealth now is comfortable as a couple but would not be if we split. After inheritance, she could bug out and live pretty large. That's what has me uncertain about now. It's not anything she's doing but what she *might* do. It's not fair to her at all.

Sacredsoul,

Pain shopping is an apt description. It's what brought me here. I've been lurking for a while. As far as fB, I deactivated my account and used the parental controls on the router to screen out Reddit. I can defeat it, but over time, I've done that less and less. Reddit and FB are cruel spaces. This much less so.

As for her memory being drug addled, no. As recent as last year, she was more forthright than she's being now. Now she'll say: the more I think about it, I think I only had sex with him once. Last year the story was different. I think its more a matter of her being done talking to me about it. She's very ashamed of her behavior back then and would like to put it behind her. She was patient with me at first, now gets angry when I ask. I've pushed too far.

As for my friend and her, I'm positive that they did things before we were exclusive, no matter what they say, and that's okay. How long that continued? That night that I had liberty is a very vivid memory for me, she says she doesn't remember the event at all. Not even dropping me at the ship. That was the first time I went to sea. She remembers me going, just not dropping me off, me returning on liberty. My friend took me back to the pier later that night on his way back to the sub base. I remember it like yesterday.

Does she know about the inheritance?

See a lawyer. There might be something you can do to deny her, if she divorces you. But if she knows you’ve done this, it will hurt her terribly, whether she’s venal or not. Maybe there’s something you can do with your Dad, and have it look like it was his doing.

But maybe your right; you’re being terribly unfair.

I think I’m back where I started.

Idiot.

You need to consult with a lawyer about your responsibilities as a trustee and as to the disposition of the corpus of the trust. Unless your wife is a named beneficiary, anything you inherit is yours and yours alone. Unless you co-mingle your marital assets. So, if you are worried about her flying off with lots of money, ask the lawyer how to prevent her getting possession of the trust or estate money.

I get that I am probably looking for problems where none exist. A manifestation of my own insecurities. I'm not sure why this woman is with me. Me. I look at the guys that she's been with in the past and I don't measure up. Literally. None less than 5'10", I'm an inch shorter than her. I was an E-4 when she met me, her ex was an E-5 as was the Marine the Pilot was an 0-4. Her Marine was in Recon, he's built like an ape. He provided her first O.

What I did have and still do is an ability to manage money. Though an E-4 at the time, I had savings, a plan and lived well. None of those other men could manage that. I think she saw that. She was broke, and had been through bankruptcy via her divorce. I was stable and upwardly mobile. I left the Navy as an E-6 which I made in 5 1/2 years, separated at 6 years and went to work. We had our first mil of wealth (net worth) when I was 39 and she 41. Both her and our son graduated college right around then, debt free. I know that she appreciates that I engineered that.

As far as knowing how to discharge an estate, we've done 3.

As for lawyers, accountants and other professionals, my father has them and I have them. Good God, I have three lawyers on retainer right now. Which I need to winnow down.

As for holding separate assets, I have some in the form of an inherited IRA which my state requires my wife to be the beneficiary of. But it must be drawn down within 10 years and the proceeds are being distributed directly into a TOD account with my nephew, niece and step son as beneficiaries. I own it personally. I want them to have a nice kick when their rich uncle dies. Our IRA's and ROTH's which we built while working are approximately equal in value and substantial. Our trust account and real estate are of course marital property. We live off of that trust and SS. We don't need to draw down the IRA's yet, but we do ROTH convert each year. I can and probably will stoke that TOD account a little more as we go along. As for not commingling inheritance; I don't want to do that to her. That would damage the marriage.

I just have all this stuff in my head.

Doesn't matter if you're an idiot to worry about this stuff now - you worry about it.

My guess is the question of the inheritance triggers your insecurity and your thought that you've never been a woman's 1st choice. It looks like you were your W's last choice - the last choice she made. You could look at that as if you are her 1st choice for the long term.

If she chose you only because you're her meal ticket, what would you do? (Honest answer needed ... don't let what others might think of your answer interfere with your honesty.) Would you want to know the truth? If she said she loved you for who you are, would you believe her?

I get that you're ashamed of accepting FWB status, but is that really shameful? Is there something wrong with one person agreeing to accept being one of several instead of one and only if that's what the prospective partner wants?

Has your W been unfaithful - did she have an EA or PA after both of you committed to being exclusive?

You see yourself as a nebbish who's good with money. Is it possible others, including your W, see you differently?

I wouldn't want to be M to someone who sees me only as a meal ticket, so I would check that out. The trouble is that it's hard to discern truth without high self-esteem. The usual reco for self-esteem issues is: find a good IC.

I had to look up "nebbish." I'd have to say no to that. If anything, I'm very confident in my ability to make decisions and figure things out. My lack of physical stature does make me feel insecure. I'd bet that most if not all men of my height have that same issue. I'm 5'4." My mother is quite small and I'm only 4" taller than her.

As you mention: last choice. I've always considered that as being settled for. Perhaps it was different.

As far as being chosen (only) as a meal ticket? I'd say: not only, but primarily. I literally pitched a rent split in my larger apartment that was more advantageous to her. My rent did not change vs my former room mate. I pitched that to a woman who had been my friend and occasional sex partner but that I had dated only for about 8 months, probably exclusively but I don't really know that. She was genuinely struggling financially in a one bedroom apartment with no heat in the living room where she slept. Yes, her primary motivation was money at the time or at least living conditions, maybe stability. Whatever the problem, I will figure it out and work my way through, I think that should have value for a woman, right? There was an incident (event) where she got me drunk and attempted to provoke me into hitting her. I did not hit her nor have I ever struck a woman. I think drunkenness would be a poor excuse for doing so. I have come to find out that this is a common test that abused women use. Given her history, I understand why, and I am a very different sort of man than she was used to and I know she appreciates that.

She did at one point interview for a promotional opportunity on the other side of the country that would have ended our relationship. She did that with no consideration of our relationship. I could do nothing other than encourage her to promote. Ultimately, it was not as good a pay bump as she had thought and living expenses would have made it a downgrade. That is why she didn't take it. Our relationship even after living together was disposable for her. This was in that first three years.

If money were her primary motivation now, would I leave? No. She is my life and if I can keep what I have, I will, by whatever means. When I said our relationship is the best it's ever been, I actually mean that. We are both very different that we were back then. She just retired as our Church secretary, I've just taken my fifth post as an officer in that church. Our social and faith lives revolve around church. That's a long way from a couple of enlisted Sailors who got together as FWB. We were both raised in churches but fell away. This is a re-connect for both of us.

Honestly, what I think I want is to know details of her "relationship" with the drug supplier and when it ended. I want to know honestly, not what she thinks I want to hear. I want to know what happened with my friend and when that ended. I know more than they think and its not what I've been told. Would this knowledge change our relationship status? No, and I've told her as much. If fact, I think it would provide me relief but I suspect that I'd go through a period of I guess mourning if it were what I suspect. What I have now is uncertainty and suspicion, running parallel to our current, wonderful relationship. I mean, I'm here in secrecy right now, seeking answers. That's probably not healthy either. I can not understand, given the no consequence conditions here, why she chooses to minimize. It's hard for me to understand my own thinking much less, hers.

Why don't you sit her down and tell her how you have been feeling. About everything. I do think you are going to have to come to an acceptance if you want to stay with her.

I'm very sorry life has thrown all that your way it really reads like a trainwreck. My M was a trainwreck too and I'm very happy to be divorced.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 7:24 PM, Thursday, January 30th]