SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm here for support and advice on next steps.

My WH and I have been married 40+ years. He told me after we'd been married several months about a one night stand while we were dating. Then I discovered text evidence of a long-term affair 10 years ago, but back then he refused to give details. I also know that he's looked at porn for many years. Anyway, over the last couple years he has slipped little bits of clues about more affairs in between those two. He also has had a "friendship" for many years continuing right up to DD that I have always suspected was an affair. Any time I mentioned it he reacted with gaslighting, accusations of unfounded jealousy, etc. Turns out that EA was once sexual, too. Sept. 17 was the big DD--the revelation of many more infidelities: some were ONSs, others lasted for years, others were EAs that he says were not physical or were only briefly physical. He even groped his own young teen sister in our home when she spent the night with us.(She told me many years after the fact and he admitted it. I like to think I would have gotten the law involved if I had known back when it happened, but by my history of passivity, I probably would not have.) So...by his own admission he's cheated about every way there is to do it, over nearly the entire time of our relationship, and while maintaining a whole secret second life. I am better off knowing the facts and details, instead of bits and clues and suspicions. However, it is a tsunami of information. And I am really not even sure that the one "friendship"/EA with a former sex partner is going to remain over. Or that I know everything he remembers from the past.

How do you discern true remorse? I don't feel he's there yet. I believe he feels guilt and shame, but I don't believe he really gets the crippling pain and sense of betrayal I'm going through, or how he has devastated our life together. He seems to just want to forget about it and get along, but without doing any work to heal. He reacts angrily when I request clarification or try to express how I feel. But at the same time he gives me no room to openly express anger myself. On the other hand, finally giving me very embarrassing details of many affairs I would never have otherwise known about, and getting an internet filter on his phone seem to be real progress on his part. I feel a little bit encouraged that he does want to save at least our living together rather than breaking up.

Just barely surviving in a marriage is not enough for me, though. Can anyone else here spell A-M-B-I-V-A-L-E-N-C-E?

There is no part of me that trusts him to tell the truth or behave with integrity anymore. At this point I am grieving his incredible deceitfulness and manipulation as much as the actual sex with others. I don't know if it is even possible for him to truly change enough to make a decent husband. And yet, since DD there is no evidence he has contacted another woman or looked at porn.

It is obvious I have not been good at setting boundaries in my marriage, or I would have made him come clean before now, or left him, or something. I realize I've been ennabling his horrific betrayals, so there is misery over my mistakes, too.

I feel shocked, overwhelmed, and traumatized at the enormity of all I need to face. And despite all this, I still want to try to salvage this marriage. I have invested since I was a young teen in this relationship--and my husband and marriage are important enough to me that I would like to recover together if it's at all possible. I am willing to struggle and put in the recovery work. Those are just values important to my faith. However, I cannot keep live with him if I discover he is incorrigibly continuing in his past behavior. I guess what I want is to make it as hard as possible for him to continue down his normal, destructive rut; but not to be clueless and passive anymore if he does indeed choose to continue.

So these are what steps have been taken:
*The last female "friend"/former sex partner's contact number has been blocked and deleted. (She is local, though, so he could still meet her. He could also contact her through her son, who lives with her and is a friend of WH.)
*He now has an internet filter on his phone and no computer access at all at home.
*I secretly put spyware on his phone so I can verify his whereabouts and activity on the phone.
*I regularly go through the phone itself for any clues that have escaped the spyware.
*I have disclosed general information about the cheating and lying to our (all adult) children, some members of his family and to some of my friends.
*I've been STD tested.
*I am seeing a therapist by myself for my betrayal trauma.
*I've started a journal so that I have a way to express my tremendous anger and sadness.
*I'm trying to continue my normal interests and take care of myself.
*I already see a psychiatric nurse practitioner and take meds for stabilizing my mood.
*Now I am here because I need the support of others who have walked where I find myself.

He once threatened to get a secret phone so he could continue his porn addiction, and for all I know, use it contact women. This threat, made a few years ago when I asked him (unsuccessfully) to get a filter on his phone, is the main reason I have kept the spyware a secret. If he doesn't know I'm seeing things before he has a chance to delete them, then maybe he won't be tempted to go to the extreme of another phone. But I have no idea what could be done about the possibility of that. There are probably dozens more ways for him to escape detection if he decides to keep up his deceptions. What else should I, the formerly clueless BS, watch for?

Then there's the issue of counseling. He has always refused to go to marriage counseling, and I haven't even asked again lately. Part of me would like at this point to insist on professional help, or else we are over, but I have not told him that. I just don't feel up to precipitating another big crisis right now.

What else can/should I do?

I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this. It’s so traumatizing.

I don’t think there’s any real hope for a healthy relationship with this man. He sexually molested a minor. His own sister. That’s a criminal act.

On top of that there are too many other betrayals to count, and no evidence of real remorse and willingness to do the hard work of change, if change is even possible for someone this disordered.

I would start making an exit plan.

I’m so very sorry.

He wants you to sweep this under the rug. All of it.

You cannot make him talk about anything.

But then again you do not have to accept that behavior either.

Read up on the 180. Don’t be afraid to use it to protect yourself.

Crying as I read Grieving's assessment.

Yes, I will read the 180 information.

Thank you for your responses.

RUN !!!

So sorry you're here. Infidelity is the worst. From what you've said, your WH doesn't sound like he's remorseful. With the amount of repeated behavior, there is little chance he will change. He can change if he really wants, but he's got a ton of work to do to become a safe partner. He's got to make that choice and his actions need to match.

Dear Ozark, I too am really sorry to find you here.

The first thing I would like to tell you is that you did everything that needed to be done on your part, and that's really impressive, I'm proud of you and you can be too.

Every action you took will help you recover from this. I had been with my WS 20 years before I discovered the cheating, so I know what you can be going through.

The problem here is YOU did everything you could, to heal and to prevent this trauma from happening again. But you seem to be the only one trying to fix things here. I'm sorry but your WS doesn't look remorseful at all, and like it was said before, at the moment he's a really bad candidate for reconciliation. You wouldn't believe how things can change once you take a stand for yourself and kick the WS out.

I did the mistake of not throwing my WS out when I discovered the A, and suffered for months, as she wasn't showing any sign of real remorse or guilt. Hell, she didn't even want to break contact with her ex-lover/sexfriend ! When I finally threw her out, she begged me, litteraly on her knees, and started a therapy to fix herself. Later on, she even admitted that she "needed to be punished" for what she did...

Throwing the WS out is never a guarantee they will work on themselves : sometimes they will just leave rather than fix their mess. But what's important is the 180. You have to be strong and realize the current status quo can't go on anymore. Whatever the issue will be, you can't stay in this relationship or you will suffer a lot. Who would want that ?

[This message edited by iamjack at 8:44 AM, Wednesday, November 9th]

Ozark159,
First of all nothing you did enabled these betrayals! These were all the choices he made. Please dont ever say because of your mistakes this happened. He is a selfish human being and he does not care at all about your feelings and your thoughs. Yes we all make mistakes in marriage but we believe in fidelity and we believe in marriage. We would not cheat once let alone over 40+ years.

Secondaly, he does not want to save this marriage because he had 40+ years to decide that. He is not remorseful at all. He is only saying words that you want to hear. He will not give up his porn addiction nor the cheating. He feels guilt and shame? Absolutely no way! He is not a very nice person. He is not even making an effort to help you. He gets angry when you mention things. He doesnt want to talk about it because he wants to sweep it all under the rug and not think about it. He managed to get away with it for too long. He will continue to try.

It baffles me why you would want to continue to be with someone like that. I know youve lived with him for so long and youre comfortable with your life and maybe because you feel you dont want to start over again on your own however do you think you can continue to be in the same room and smile at him and look at his eyes knowing everything you know about him? You deserve better and you deserve happiness! You can make your own happiness and you dont need him. He doesnt deserve you.

Gently, I suggest you read https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/. That thread may allow you to compare your H to the ideal WS.

You've taken a lot of great steps. As another whose d-day hit after more than 40 years of M, I feel comfortable saying I have some sense of what you're going trough - the normal BS roller coaster and loss of self-esteem plus the uncertainty about the future when the relationship I had for all of my adult life went belly-up.

I assure you, if you follow through with your plans - building boundaries, learning to assert and be yourself, etc. - you will heal. You may dump your H in the end, but you'll heal - and you'll find yourself surviving and thriving.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:57 PM, Wednesday, November 9th]

HE GROPED HIS OWN TEENAGED SISTER.

WTF?

And you're focused on affairs??

I think you need to rethink your priorities here. Your should-be-felon WH is a predator, and should be given prison time, not a second chance.

Fucking gross.

For every cockroach you see, there are 100 you don’t.

You know that he groped his underage sister and is addicted to porn.

I think he’s done far worse than that and that the contents of his computer would probably land him jail.

I think you should get out of this marriage before you get an STD and he gets carted out in handcuffs.

I hope you can find an aspect of your faith that can support you in divesting yourself of this cruel and criminal man. This is sad; this is horrific. You do not deserve this.

Ozark -

What else can/should I do?

This is the fundamental problem. YOU CAN'T DO THIS SINGLEHANDEDLY. You are trying to reconcile with a remorseless cheater who has no incentive to change. Reconciliation requires you both to want and be willing to put in work and he's done nada to indicate he is interested in changing his behavior or repair your marriage. YOU'RE willing to struggle and work, and he's willing to sit back and watch you.

You're also a victim of the sunk cost fallacy. Don't keep making a mistake because you've already invested a lot of time making it. And do you want to live this way forever? Secretly installing monitoring programs on his phone and watching his every move and living in constant anxiety? There's no magical bean, potion or technique to force terrible people not to be terrible. Only they can control what they do. YOU control what you do and how you allow people to treat you.

However, the biggest issue is that your husband is a predator. He sexually assaulted his teenage sister and you never reported him, stayed with him, and know you wouldn't have reported him had you known when it happened. Your husband has zero fear you will leave him therefore no incentive to be a decent human being.

I'm certain your husband has another phone. And I tend to agree with BluerThanBlue. Your husband has done things and probably has devices full of material that should land him in jail.

I say this sincerely, because I do believe you truly deserve better and I'm so sorry you're in this situation but you need more intensive mental health services than you are currently receiving. Your codependency is at a toxic level. There's worse things for than being alone, that being remaining in your marriage.