SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Last September I came here and wrote about discovering my husband's affair. After a lot of TT, he admitted he had met her in two different trips in 2021 for sex. He said they had met in an online meeting a few months before the first trip, in October, 2021, and that they met again in the following December.
However, the OW recently contacted me. She wants him to tell her the reasons why he broke up, she wants to meet him for that (and feels entitled to it!). She is also married and her husband already knows. And then she sent me the whole story, with a bunch of files to support her: they'd been talking since 2011 and keeping virtual sex sessions, along with emotional connection. They kept a secret PA between 2018 and 2022, when I found out. He lied and cheated for 12 years and, most importantly, he kept lying to me while we were trying to rebuild something. He can't stop lying, even though we've been dealing with all this and also IC.
I don't feel as terrible as I did when I first discovered, but all the effort we've been through (or that I've been through, since he's been lying all this time) seems to me as a waste. All the trust I was rebuilding is gone. He says he didn't tell me because he thought I'd simply leave him and he seems devastated. But I can't believe it. I look at him when he cries and asks for forgiveness and it seems true, but soon after I think he's still lying. I love him, but it doesn't seem enough for me. We had advanced considerably, but I don't know if I can or want to cope with all this again.

First of all, a big hug, I’m so sorry you’ve had this second bombshell.

OW recently me. She wants him to tell her the reasons why he broke up, she wants to meet him for that (and feels entitled to it!).

This is shocking in its effrontery. By contacting you, one could read this in several ways, and most positively that your WH is keeping NC and good boundaries, and she’s both desperate and malicious, and terrified of being the irrelevance she actually is, or the easy distraction from a boring job that she most likely provided for him. Like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction comes to mind, the OW’s fear of being an irrelevance and in your OW’s case just used by your WH as a masturbatory accessory suggests she is trying to be relevant by blowing up your marriage again, not just boiling the family bunny. Don’t let her. Blow up your marriage. She is actually irrelevant.

But your WH’s lying isn’t, as you say. As to the new information, I am so sorry. I don’t read any anger from you, have you buried it? Apart from crying, does your WH have any tears for you and how you feel, what action is he taking? Can you see remorse or just regret and fear (sounds like he minimised as he was in fact terrified you would leave)?

[This message edited by Edie at 5:34 PM, Monday, April 17th]

Your WH seems to be very selfish, which is normal for cheaters. He cheated for a long period of time - that is all about him and his needs. He says he lied about the extent because he was afraid you would leave - again all about him, not you. He still seems to be be a self centered and very unsafe partner. Any tears he is shedding are for himself, not for what he has done to you. You do not seem to have much to work with. He has a mountain of work to do in order to become a safe partner. You know you can't trust his words. You have to watch his actions. He should be going flat out to support your healing.

Fair is fair, Heartbroken74. The OW wants to drag spouses into it. She thinks it's okay to contact her affair partner's wife and make demands. I say, why not return the favor? You've got the word of an adulterer that her spouse "knows everything". I expect she's probably sent you a bunch of texts and whatnot that he doesn't actually know. But even if he does, if making demands are the order of the day, I think I'd tell him in no uncertain terms that he should keep his dog off my lawn as it were, and that the next time you hear from either one of them, you will consider it to be harassment and will respond with legal.

After that, it's up to you how to deal with your WH's perfidy. It's not unusual to only discover "the tip of the iceberg" on dday. A 12-year affair puts a whole different spin on things though, and while it's not unrecoverable, it's A LOT to process. I think it's okay to give yourself some time to think about what you want for your life going forward. IOW, you don't have to commit to a path right this moment. It's okay to keep both paths open for now. You're still reeling from this new information and even though it might feel like you've got to make a choice, that's largely an illusion caused by the adrenaline of trauma. Breathe. And know that you are enough. You'll get through this.

((hugs))

Send all that info out to her family and place of work, maybe that's what she's wanting. A full on open display of her undying love for your WH.

This lady is insane. LOL, gotta laugh at dumb ass entitled people. "How dare you Heartbroken74, keep her away from your husband? I mean, he owes her an explanation as to why they he can no longer be her emotional support!. How dare he and you break up her fantasy!" LOL

As for your POS WH, he's been lying to you for over a decade. You don't have a real relationship with him that is no tainted. YOur work and advances in R were one big fat lie. You should kick his ass out the house and let her have him. There is nothing to build on. There is no way for trust to be rebuilt. I'm not sure of how the laws work in brazil, but probably best bet is to consult an attorney down there and find out what your options are.

Wow that is a lot.
First, listen to CT. Send all that info to the OBS and tell him to muzzle his dog. Then block them.
They are not important, they are irrelevant.

As for your H. TT is the ruin of many an attempt at R. He’s had over 6 months to come clean. And he opted to protect himself.
Take the time you need to process and decide what you want. I’d say your trust is lower than zero… he dug a big ole’ hole and went negative.

Has he told his IC the truth? Is he being honest with anyone, including himself?

This is a good time for a soft 180 to help you work through your emotions and focus on you. What you need. Whether this is the last straw for you or not. You will know when you know, so long as you don’t rug sweep.

And remember that you will get through this. You are strong.

Thanks all of you for the messages and the support. I feel much better. I wrote this post and went to a counseling session, it was really eye opening. It was great to come back and read your answers to me. I know you know it's been tough. Of all people in the world I know that you can understand.
Edie, regarding anger, I don't think I buried it. I'm just too exhausted, physically, emotionally, psychologically. I'm done with feeling miserable and pissed off all the time. I'm not this person. I feel like it's changed me in ways that nothing can repair. I'm not feeling the same way I did when I first found out, with a hole inside of me. All I feel is disappointment, but in a fashion I never thought I could. But if my marriage gets to an end, it has to be for the real reasons, not because this filthy, disgusting person decided. I am the one who makes the decisions and I am not letting her manipulate me.
Ranger, I'm definitely focusing on his actions from now on. I see things exactly as you wrote: everything is about him and his needs. I'm working in prioritizing myself and taking time to rebuild my self-esteem and value before considering working on us.
Chamomile Tea, I have already sent her husband a message and blocked them both. I wish I could be the bigger person, but I just want her to suffer and stop to deceive him, in this order. Thanks for the words, especially the end of your message. I'm breathing and focusing on myself.
Halftime2017, I don't think my effort's been a big fat lie. My effort is real and I really think that everything I've been through so far is going to make me a better person in many ways. I hate te idea that one can learn from suffering, I really do; however, I think that the personal process has been fruitful. No one can take this effort from me. I am already aware of the legal developments of the divorce proceedings here in Brazil. Thanks for the words.
BearlyBreathing, thanks for taking your time to support me. Regarding what you wrote: "This is a good time for a soft 180 to help you work through your emotions and focus on you. What you need. Whether this is the last straw for you or not. You will know when you know, so long as you don’t rug sweep", that's exactly what I'm doing now. :)
I am deeply grateful for everything you all gave to me with your words. I needed to feel it.
Lots of love

Technology has come a long way. You can have your spouse's messages set up,so they come to you,and they never see them. You can bet she's done that.

Call her husband and tell him. Or have your husband call him and tell him. Immediately. Before he has a chance to warn her.

I'm sorry you had to find your way back under these circumstances. The first issue you raise - the AP contacting you is the easy part, as I'm sure you know. There is an old thread of mine from years ago discussing the AP contacting me with the same crazy types of demands (CT hit the nail on the head re: entitlement and her likely anger and being shut out - that is when the AP contacted me - blaming me for "ruining her son's life by telling the OBS"...) Nonsense really. I think my ultimate response to her was something like her issues were not my problem and I did not feel sorry for her nor was I going to act (or not act) in any way based on her issues, comments, or problems, and that she needed to wake up and realize that she could not control the consequences of her actions and left it at that. She called again like a month later crying and trying to apologize and my response was something similar - I had no interest in her problems or her apologies and to stop contacting me or I would be seeking a restraining order. I never heard from her again.

The bigger issue as it seems you already know are the lies. I hope Tallgirl sees this post and comments on it as your situation sounds similar to hers (her now ExWS told her initially his A was 5 years long but then later - like a year later, she came to find out it was double that). In my case my WH continued the A underground for a year when I caught him and told the OBS (which brought on the aforementioned calls/texts from the AP). The lies were massive and daily but different to your situation in that they were about "new" things - new lies relating to the A going on for the year between d-day 1 and d-day 2 - I didn't learn anymore about what happened before d-day 1 but I learned about a new year of lies. Every day for a year was loaded with lies. Every single day, and it was devastating to me and to us. The lies are ultimately what destroyed us. I could not fathom how (or why) he could continue to lie to me after the first time. Why he chose to lie instead of just letting me know the truth and to get on with my life. Lies are the biggest tool in the WS bag of manipulation. They are an attempt to control the outcome on the part of a WS and IMO they are the biggest cause of the end of a relationship fractured by infidelity.

You are 100% right in feeling like you don't know if you can continue. It's okay to feel that way - in fact I think it's the most normal response. Some people have come back from it - others cannot. It's okay to be in either camp.

Hi heartbroken,

I am so sorry that this happened to you. I am glad you came here to post, keep coming back, what your husband has done is truly horrible. I know you love him, but he is the definition of selfishness.

Our stories are similar, I am just ahead of you by 5 years.

Quick compare of the storyline.
- a week before our 24 th anniversary, he told me he had a 5 year affair…
- he said it was over (and a bunch of other stupid stuff)
-dday2 was 2 months later. It never ended. It did this time
- after a year of counselling about do we stay married, a friend shared that she felt suspicious of her WS, so it got me thinking…. I snuck in into his files. Turns out he did online dating and massage parlours for happing endings for the 5 years before the girlfriend.
- he moved out. My ask. .he was still lying and that was a dealbreaker.

So there is a similar thread to our stories.

About the other woman. She does have balls. To be very clear, you owe her nothing. Give her nothing. She deserves zero. Do not speak to her or legitimize her in anyway. If your husband talks to her, after wanting to reconcile, boot him to the curb. This has to be a dealbreaker My wh went to her house to pick up his things, she cried, they slept together because he felt badly she cried. My tears sure did not have the same effect. Your husband and his AP are too intimate, the risk is too high. Clearly resisting temptation is not a skill.

About him feeling bad, crying, wanting to reconcile. It is all baloney. He had a 12 year affair, and he is just thinking about this now? No way. He knew it was wrong, hurtful, and he kept doing it. Consequences are very real, and very harsh when you treat the people you are supposed to love so callously. He needs to stop crying and start working.

About you loving him…. I have one question. Do you actually know him? He has lied for well over a decade. He hasn’t been focused on just you for 12 years. He can’t be the man you have in your head. That man in your head really loves you, this man IRL hasn’t truly loved you in a long time. I am sorry to sound heartless on this. Let me share why. My ex was the man of my dreams, literally. I was his wife. I loved him so much I was blind, and accepted less than I deserved. He became unkind to me, always angry, so much so my kids wanted us to split. I just kept thinking that while things were not good, we were meant to stay married.

I was very wrong. I know now he was totally wrong for me. And it took me a long time to get to this point. Now I am fully convinced, I apologize for being so direct. Please know you are not alone.

——-

Please look at this situation from a distance. See it for what it is. Then decide what to do.

It is so very hard to go through this. I am sorry to meet you here.

Take it day by day.

TallGirl knocked it out of the park.

Excellent advice.

Tall Girl,

Thanks for your message and the kind words. I needed them and also needed someone to be straight to the point with me. You were not heartless (I guess this was the word you used), you were direct as a true friend would. I've been acting like we were meant to stay married, no matter what. I've been thinking about what you said, about not knowing him, and loving the man I have in my head. I am more and more convinced of it. I love the man who supported me once when our kid was prematurely born, who gave me strength once, the one who truly loved me once, the one who fought to be with me (and he did, it's true. Our families were both against us being together, my parents tried to keep us apart, etc). This guy seems long gone now.
I'm deeply sorry you needed to go through all this to give such precious piece of advice. I'm living one day at a time as you said. Still striving. The OW has sent more messages, offending me and with the same files, trying to break me. I'm neither reading nor answering, I'm not giving her anything but contempt. I need to keep my dignity. I am better than this.

Hell must break before I am lost. (Quote from one of my favorite poems, Eurydice, by H.D.)

Lots of love

To sort of quote Princess Diana, "There are three people(with a OBS fourth watching) in this relationship." Why don’t you bow out and let those three creeps live their slimy lives. He does not deserve you…..at all!

Please read LYING by Jonathan Wallace in the Ethical Spectacle. It cover all lies including those of a cheater.

Don’t try to fix this. It will be too hard on you emotionally and physically. Sometimes trying to live with someone this deceitful is like pushing a rope up a hill. It is never ending.

Yea, the OW that will not go. I know that one. Ignore her completely. Be thankful she gave you some truth as to what was happening.

Wouldn't it be nice if the people we thought we knew were actually that person.....

He doesn't want to reconcile, he wants you to calm down and go on with whatever he's willing to give. The old days are gone.

You know Chaos has had a ton of experience with an AP that will not stop.

Maybe she can stop by and offer some advice. She is brilliant and inspiring. Maybe look for some of her posts.

Glad you are doing ok. Doing ok while going through this is an incredible achievement!

I am very glad I could help in a small way.

As I often say it’s not the affair that kills the marriage.

It’s the behavior of the cheater after dday1 that does.

Lying continues. Trickle truth. Affair continues or re-starts. All of it is devastating But to find out it’s Affair Part 2 is worse.

So sorry for you.

Lying becomes a way of life. My ex still hides stuff from me when it is directly relevant. He knew that he is legally a bigamist for 6 months before telling me. Yep still married to his first wife.

The problem is the husband’s we thought we had don’t lie. The ones in real life hardly know the truth anymore

I was also confronted with an entitled AP that would just not go away. Apparently she felt bad "that we had both been lied too"! Imagine how bad she would have felt if she knew she wasn’t the only AP.

She was relentless in her efforts to play with my mind. It became evident that because she could no longer contact my WH I became her focus.

Thankfully she lived in another city but even after my WH had the police contact her to leave him alone she would not stop contacting me.

I blocked her on my personal phone but could not stop her calling my work and leaving messages, emailing etc. I had dozens of hangups on my work phone or five minute voicemails with silence and then deranged female laughter. When she did leave messages after sometimes months of silence they contained made up lies that were designed to hurt me and imply the affair was ongoing. Thankfully I was able to confirm the were lies but they still caused damage and pain.

I eventually had a cease and desist letter sent which seemed to work. I also left that place of employment and moved to a remote area.

In hindsight I should have acted more decisively much earlier. My IC suspected she had BPD or some other issue. Let’s face it people who knowingly engage in affairs or display long term behaviours that involve lying and deception are broken. I urge you not to be passive in your response to her. She has demonstrated her tenacity and she will not likely disappear by you simply ignoring her.

My WH also initially lied about the extent of his infidelity. I know what a gut punch this must be. He had three APs and was completely broken. I also did not get the full story on DD. I used to look at him when he was expressing sorrow, regret, remorse and think "blah blah you said all of this crap before while you were cheating and TTing. It’s true that you can only rely on their actions when attempting/considering reconciliation.

We have managed reconciliation but ONLY after reaching rock bottom and years of intensive IC for both of us. Recovery from infidelity is hard and in my case still ongoing but so much better.

I had a similar attitude to you in that the AP wasn’t going to dictate my decision to stay or go. In a strange way I was initially grateful for her letting me know I wasn’t getting the full story. Then I realised that she had thought about me for years before I even knew she existed. In her mind I was the enemy.

Don’t allow this person access to your head. The journey ahead of you is hard enough and you don’t need her input.