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I have reasons to believe WH broke no contact with AP. I believe they texted and possibly talked on the phone. Most likely they did not meet up but I can’t be sure. It’s been about 18 months of R (I guess false R!). He swears he had no contact whatsoever. I am going to ask to see phone records. If there is evidence of ongoing contact, what then? What do i do? For the record, I have to say WH did appear to have changed…. More attentive, kinder, calling and checking in whenever he’s out, sharing locations on phone, giving me access to his devices (which I now see as being useless) and other things that made me think he was changing for the better. I can’t believe this…. Please help. I do want to keep my marriage because I do think we can have a good future. I know this sounds absurd. We are good with each other and whatever, But I need the first steps to get through this relapse.

I’m so sorry…As I said on your other thread, WH did go underground as "friends" because he felt he couldn’t abandon AP, he felt responsible for her and the pain he inflicted on her. 🤢 He then confessed to maintaining contact 4 months later when he realised she had no intention to remain friends but was pushing for him to leave me.(This is for context)

We are successfully reconciled/ing, 6 and a half year later, but when he confessed he maintained contact I was done, not to threaten or to play games, but because I couldn’t see how we could ever recover after that. On dday 1 I thought it was us against the world and we will together overcome the pain of his affair.

But to hear 4 months later that whilst I was wasting away, losing weight, crying all the time being completely broken, he was concerned with AP and her pain without realising how this was negatively impacting our recovery, made me realise that I was on my own and he wasn’t my friend, he was my worst enemy and his actions were extremely damaging to me and my wellbeing. In fact, for him that was his awakening but for me it was impossible to believe for a long time.

Whilst telling him I was done, I needed us to maintain appearances (ie. live in the same house) for another few months and he decided to try and win me over demonstrating he meant business. After a while I decided to stay past the "maintain appearances" period on a monthly review basis. We literally used to sit down every month that first year and decide if I was willing to continue. Again, this wasn’t to keep the threat over his head or some sort of game I was playing, this was the level of commitment I was willing to take and nothing more.

I also told him what my requirements were for him to still live with us, but in all honesty I didn’t believe he had it in him anymore as I could not see how we could recover after all the damage he’s done, more so post dday 1. IC was top of the list.

Honestly there’s one saying around here "you need to be ready to lose your marriage in order to save it" and it never was more true than in my case.

I’d say you need to draw a line. First it sounds like he’s still lying if he’s not admitting to contact but you have proof. This means you don’t have much to work with. I remember on dday 2 when WH sat me down and told me he still talked to ow, he could not stop talking. We went through 24 hours of him talking, giving me everything he could remember, every little detail and me being sick from time to time. In a way that’s how I knew he did finally wake up, although it felt too late for me.

Regardless of the future you think you could have, if he’s still lying and there are no consequences to it what makes you think he’ll ever stop?

I’m sorry, I don’t think you’ve got much to work with. It doesn’t mean he may never be capable of true change but it doesn’t sound he is there yet and I think it’s time you protect yourself from further pain and start planning for a future without him. Hugs.

Luna has said it so well. I too had false reconciliation and felt just like Luna described - I am on my own. He was not ever in this with me. He is actively hurting me.

I was done. I asked him to leave and he had his own apartment within 2 weeks. It was a gamechanger for him, me and my family. A good game changer.

Just like Luna, I didn't ask to punish him. I needed him gone because he had already abandoned me and the sight of him hurt my skin.

Think long and hard about what is good for your mental health right now. Determine the consequences based on that. He's gotten comfortable (assuming contact had stopped and this was a one off) and does not think he can lose you. You have to send the message loud and clear that he is wrong.

I'm sorry you're hurting. This sucks all around. Take this away if you can: this is proof positive (if you needed it) that the affair was a him issue and not a you issue. You went to the mat for your marriage. You've waded through the muck and pain and tears and snot and sleepless nights to save it. It's him, not you.

If you want to try saving it again, you need to be willing to lose it and find yourself.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 11:30 PM, Friday, March 15th]

Thank you Luna and TheEnd.
I appreciate your replies.
I don’t have irrefutable proof but I think it’s proof enough. Is appears they’ve been in contact for some time now. I am fairly certain they did not meet up in person. Anyway, this feels like another Dday. I am experiencing the same symptoms… but this time I am so embarrassed to have even given him a chance. I can’t even reach out to my friends anymore as I have proven myself to be stupid fool. I feel like the fallout is worse now because my kids thought we were reconciling and our family was back together.
Can someone explain and elaborate on "be willing to lose the marriage to save it"

Cedarwoods, I know this is beyond devastating, but you have to control the narrative going forward. Tell him he is welcome to the AP, that you deserve better. He will have to tell the kids and everyone what he has been upto. Tell him you are separating and freeing yourself from a life of lying and cheating. You value yourself too much to put up with this. Talk to a lawyer just in case.

More likely than not, AP isn’t going to sound that much fun anymore. The thrill of cheating and sneaking is not there anymore. He is going to want to come back. You still hold on to your boundaries and ask him to prove that he is worthy of a honest woman like yourself.

I send you hugs.

My dear. Please do not feel that you are unworthy of love and comfort from friends and family. You are not a fool. You are a loving, giving person.

You will find your strength. Keep reading and posting.

You never need to be embarrassed for trusting your spouse and trying to save your marriage. That does not make you a fool - it makes you a good spouse.

You say he’s been in contact for some time with her - so not a one-off thing? And you are 18 months out, so his head should be dislodged from his ass. The question is for you- what do you want to do?
* You can confront him, give him an empty ultimatum, and then go back to how it was with no change.
* You can call him out and put real consequences in place. Either he’ll change or he won’t, but you will have a path out of infidelity.
* You ignore it and hope it stops.
* What else?

What is he doing to become safe? Is he in IC? Has he been trying to ID his whys? Or just doing the superficial stuff for R?

Sadly, they leave us few good options when they break NC.

I am so sorry. It stinks when the lying liars keep lying.

Thank you so much for your words of comfort and encouragement.

I thought we were doing well in R. It had made me so happy and hopeful. Now I am devastated all over again, not necessarily about the contact but the lying. I’ve asked for the phone log from the carrier ( it’s a company issued phone so I am not sure how easy it would be) so I should be able to prove if my proof is correct or not. Until then, I need to stand strong and show him that I will not be deceived anymore. I need to somehow find the strength within to be ok walking away from this marriage. At the moment I am just crumbling and falling back into a dark place.

[This message edited by cedarwoods at 3:39 AM, Saturday, March 16th]

We've (mostly) all been to a point where we felt that there was no way out. Give yourself time. Give yourself grace. Please do not allow yourself to be abused. Treat yourself as your own best friend, no matter what it takes.

Thank you FunHouse.
I’ve lost so much as a result of the affair. My best friend of 35 years dropped me when I decided to reconcile. My other close friends keep distance.
I feel like I need to runaway. Far far away where people don’t know me. This is really hard.

Sending you love and strength. I'm so sorry that this is happening. And I'm really mad at your so-called friends on your behalf.

Take good care of yourself and put yourself first. Something I did when I was in the worst days was book a weekend away at a nice hotel by myself. I needed to prove to myself that I could do things alone, so I went to the art museum alone. I needed to be around beautiful things. I stopped by the fancy grocery store and bought good cheese and other yummy snacks. I soaked in the tub and lounged, watching movies, reading, just being with me. It was hard and I was sad, but it was empowering. Does something like that sound appealing?

I don’t have a lot of advice beyond what’s been offered. But I comment a lot on your threads because I follow your story. I just wanted to say that I am so sorry this is happening. I am floored. There are no words here, but I will send up a prayer for you tonight.

And it breaks my heart to think you have a friend who can’t find it in her heart to disagree with you but love you through it anyway. You are so deserving of that. The amount of loss you are experiencing is devastating.

I personally wouldn’t make any decisions in this state. Just do your best to take care of yourself and get through one day at a time. Keep writing so that we at least know you are okay and so we can extend our support in these hard days to come.

Thank you all so much. I am overwhelmed and comforted by the generosity of you all. I haven’t slept one bit in the last 24 hours. My body is in shock and I find much solace on the pages of SI as I read your stories and posts. So thank you for sharing your experiences and advice with people like me.

Sacredsoul: yes I am going to look into a getaway for myself. I need to run away for awhile. I want this pain to stop and be over with. And I know that what I am going through is nothing compared to other people’s challenges. Losing a child, major health issue, etc. but my body is reacting as if the world is ending. Actually if world were ending, it would be a relief for me. I feel like I am experiencing Dday all over again.

Hiking out: your posts have been incredibly helpful in my journey. Thank you so much. Your kind words mean so much to me.

Can someone explain and elaborate on "be willing to lose the marriage to save it"

In my case it meant that once dday 2 happened I considered the marriage lost, done. Once WH turned out to be willing to work hard to attempt to reconcile even though we both felt it wasn’t recoverable, I stopped worrying that I was pushing my demands too far and he may leave, he stopped trying to control the narrative and stopped the damage control.

In effect we both knew that everyday our relationship could end, he could say something that I then decided was too much and I was done, I could ask something from him that he may not be able or willing to offer and he could decide to check out. I think this is what made it recoverable even after a second dday, we stopped trying to control the outcome and move forward with authenticity.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I remember those days, I felt so hopeless on dday 2. Mostly because it was clear to me, as I said, that he wasn’t on my side, we weren’t working together as a team to recover from his affair, he was sabotaging me and adding additional trauma to the one he already created. The humiliation I felt as well that ow knew it was all bullshit (the no contact message, the blocking on work email and chat etc) was beyond everything I ever felt. After that I lumped them both in the same "I need to protect myself from you aggressors" category for a very long time.

I’m sorry your WH is still lying. I would say that a big part of me starting to allow WH back (much much much later on after a series of actions he took to show commitment even though I was checked out) was played by him confessing to contact, showing me evidence of it, having a call with ow and I at his initiative to tell her this time he does not want to ever hear of her again, and spending 24 hours prior to that call giving me any detail of the initial affair and the following 4 months he could remember…

With him not admitting to it and still lying if indeed he’s been in contact, there absolutely nothing to work with, please protect yourself. I’m thinking of you…

[This message edited by Luna10 at 11:28 AM, Saturday, March 16th]

Luna

I read your posts in reconciliation forum and am so happy for you. It sounds like you did it the right way- putting your WH’s feet to the fire and be willing to lose the marriage. I’ve been walking on eggshells because I am afraid of losing the marriage. Yes, that’s really the truth. I am financially independent and my kids are all grown so I don’t NEED WH. But my life and my kids’ lives are better with him (minus all the affair stuff)

I made a new discovery. The AP emailed to wish him happy birthday few days ago. I asked WH if she contacted him on his bday and that’s when he showed me the email. He said he was going to block her email. She sent it from her new work email so he had no way of blocking it before it arrived. He had blocked her other email addresses. He said he was going to tell me about it next week when he returned from his business trip. Yeah really so bad. The content of the email was the generic have a happy birthday enjoy the day stuff.

But the tone of the email does not align with the way their relationship ended almost two years ago. AP dumped WH via text and told him to get lost. This is the 4th time she dumped him. WH asked to talk in person to get closure and she shut him down in a very nasty way. That was their last text exchange that I saw. Why would AP email him happy birthday unless they have had some contact/reconciliation since the break up? Apparently AP sends happy birthday wishes to her ex boyfriends.

[This message edited by cedarwoods at 2:50 PM, Saturday, March 16th]

My guess is, at some point he didn't block her email address, and they've had other conversations,leading up to the birthday email that you found. At some point, they made up,and became, at the very least, friendly again.

Any further communication, after dday,is a continuation of the affair.

False R is very difficult to get past. As you've said, he's done, what you thought,all the right things. Yet,now you know, he's been lying. How can you know his future efforts are genuine?

Hellfire
I am thinking the same thing. He fooled me with being attentive, showing affection, planning date nights etc all the while being in contact with her. He had me believe he was truly remorseful. I made it clear to him no contact is a bare minimum and he agreed to tell me if there had been any contact (business reasons, chance meetings, whatever) I don’t know how I could ever trust him again. I think I was so desperate to trust him during the reconciliation process because that would mean I am safe again. But alas it is not to be. My world has shattered once again.

I know that what I am going through is nothing compared to other people’s challenges. Losing a child, major health issue, etc. but my body is reacting as if the world is ending. Actually if world were ending, it would be a relief for me. I feel like I am experiencing Dday all over again.

You are. It’s another Dday.

There was a poster here several years ago who said that they had lost a child, and that while that was devastating, infidelity was infinitely more stressful. I think about that every so often and it floors me.

Give yourself grace. Treat yourself well.

Why would AP email him happy birthday unless they have had some contact/reconciliation since the break up?

I have seen this happen before. She may have wanted that ego kibble "hit" again. To see that she can still evoke some emotion out of him. People like this...the ones who ghost others...they come back from time to time to see if they can still "hook" the other person. It gives them that RUSH if they can. If not...no big deal because they really don't care.

MAYBE he wanted to tell you in person because he wanted to be there to hold you when it happened? My H did that. The adultery co-conspirator called my H at work to wish him a happy birthday. She used one of those phone cards that had a different phone number because her number was blocked...so he picked up his phone not realizing it was her. As soon as he heard it was her he hung up. When he came home that afternoon he immediately told me and showed me the phone so that I could see it was literally just seconds that he was on the phone with her.

I was upset that he didn't let me know IMMEDIATELY!! But after I calmed down I was glad that he was there to be able to show me the evidence and to hold me when I broke down. It was less than two months after Dday and things were still so RAW.

The reaction your body is giving you though is telling you something is OFF. Always trust your GUT!! I apologize...I don't know enough about your story...but your recent posts have been searching for something that you can't seem to understand. This might be why (((HUGS))).

Want2behappy
Thank you for the different perspective. I think you are correct in a way. Otherwise why would she continue to reach out to her ex boyfriends?
Anyway I was with WH on his bday and three days after. Then I headed home and he went off to his trip.
I had him reply to her telling her not to contact him again and that he’s reconciled with his wife. He sent it in my presence. But that might not mean anything bc he could call her and say that was a joke or whatever.