SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey DT,

Truly appreciate your paying-it-forward mindset and how you’d like others to learn from your experience. One quick question. In your last post you said:

Direct immediate action is the beat way forward imo.

but a few posts earlier you said:

Ive advised much the same to newly betrayeds, that and slow down. The knee jerk reaction that moves you to frantic action us, many times, ill advised.

Just wondering if that could be confusing to a newly-minted betrayed. Of course, making decisions from a position of panic and fear is ill-advised. While it seems, in my humble opinion, contrary to the sensibilities of some here, wouldn’t you say it’s likely best for newly betrayed to, by default, take an immediate position of initiating separation/D (since that process takes a very long time in most cases) and, if desired, simultaneously lay out conditions whereby the betrayed MIGHT consider R, and that the ball is now in the betraying spouse’s court to convince you to stop the D? We all know so many betrayed try to drive the R bus, and how that ALWAYS fails…

The contingencies are set in concrete.

Ours were too. I know when the first crack started...it was after we became empty nesters. I read an article in a magazine...something about having "adult fun" with your spouse or something like that. With us living in New Orleans...there are PLENTY of venues for that! We decided to go down Bourbon Street one night and it was so much FUN!! We were like kids in a candy store...we didn't have a curfew...we could do whatever we wanted...and it was a "dirty little secret" between us...which made it all the more EXCITING!!

We started meeting other like-minded people who introduced us to other adult alternative lifestyles. It was mind blowing how this stuff goes on and we never even noticed it before. We knew we had to set some rules early on before we got too involved and consumed with things. We decided that one rule...no exchange of body fluids...would cover any boundary we needed. After that...it was no holds barred. Fissures were growing deep in that concrete by that time...but everything still looked solid on the surface.

One country my H went to...I wasn't able to join him at first because of issues we needed to take care of at home first. He would have drinks with colleagues at the local bars around the area...and it included women. The night before I was to arrive...a woman propositioned my H. She told him they could still get together alone...and do "more". He told her NO...and that I was arriving the next day. She said she knew that...but they could be discreet...and I would never have to know .

When I arrived...my H told me what happened. I got so angry...at HIM! I told him that NO woman would proposition a man unless the man gave out signals!!! YES...I was that ignorant. My H felt resentment toward me for not believing him...but he also felt intrigued that a stranger would want to have sex with a married man...just for sex. That was when the concrete BROKE .

My H made a secret email...useu430mins(Use you for 30 minutes). When he was alone...he started going into chat rooms. It then moved to webcamming...and then he got on Craigslist...and finally went on Tagged. It was like an addiction...sort of like when we first walked down Bourbon Street. It was a RUSH to get the strangers to give him their pics. When that dopamine high started wearing off...then he moved to webcams. When he found himself alone again overseas...he met the adultery co-conspirator on Tagged. She was obsessed with everything "America"...and decided to meet him.

My H had been having the OA's for about 2 years before he had his PA with the adultery co-conspirator. I was oblivious to it all because I didn't know about his secret email and he never got on it when we were together. We weren't apart for long periods of time...maybe a weekend here and there...a week at the most. My H thought that since he was able to keep the OA's a secret from me...he could keep the PA a secret as well. He thought wrong. As soon as he saw me at the airport...he said the GUILT overtook him and his mind was mush. It was a HORRIBLE two days when he got back home until he finally confessed.

Hindsight is always 20/20. This little summary took YEARS for us to piece together and understand what actually happened. Being this far out I can definitely understand the sequence of events and the mindset...but I also KNOW that it is absolutely NO excuse for adultery. I also KNOW that there were signs from the OA's...but they were so subtle and I just had the blind trust and my thoughts would not go to anything leading to my H cheating in ANY way. So even though I wrote that I was oblivious in the previous paragraph...in actuality...my GUT knew. I have learned to always TRUST my GUT!!

I have healed . It took me a little longer than the average 2-5 years that is mentioned on here. It was about 7 years for me. But every day I healed a little more. I also learned that I didn't heal from my 1st M...so I had some of that to heal from as well.

I know now why people who have healed on here don't come back very often . I couldn't understand it when I first got on here...but I get it now. I remember what it felt like...but I am not in that mindset anymore. I AM happy again...I have PEACE...and Life is WONDERFUL . It feels weird to talk about how GREAT life is when others are still so RAW in their pain. But I remember how much I NEEDED to hear just that when I first got on here...and that is what keeps me coming back .

That said, I know of couples who have come back from the brink post treason and I doff my cap to them, you included. I hope its all you wish for.

I appreciate you writing this...thank you . This is not often the case though for people who have happily reconciled on here. We tend to get posts from people who write that we are deceiving ourselves...that we have settled...and we can't possibly be in as good of a M as we claim we are. There are also many people who have been in R...like I was in my 1st M...who end up right back here when their WS commits adultery again . The odds don't seem to be in the favor of M's like mine!!

But it doesn't mean it CAN'T happen . I am living proof that it CAN...and I am not the only one on here The people who started this site were for sure!! A lot more happily reconciled people were posting on here when we weren't being scoffed at like we are now. Some have actually PM'd me and told me they don't feel the need to write posts just so others can call them fools. I get it. But it is MY life and I have been telling MY story on here for the last 10 years...so why stop now?! If it only helps ONE person to feel just a teeny weeny bit better...it is worth it for the other posts of naysayers calling me a fool for thinking I am in a HAPPY M . I'll just keep on keepin' on !!!

gr8ful:

Truly appreciate your paying-it-forward mindset and how you’d like others to learn from your experience. One quick question. In your last post you said:

Direct immediate action is the beat way forward imo.

but a few posts earlier you said:

Ive advised much the same to newly betrayeds, that and slow down. The knee jerk reaction that moves you to frantic action us, many times, ill advised.

Just wondering if that could be confusing to a newly-minted betrayed.

Good point. In the greater context of the thread Id clarify and make a finer point of it to say to beware of knee jerk reactions to immediately try and save the marriage and to slow down and look to yourself first and foremost. I think rushing into salvage mode before taking the time to process and take good care of your own needs is paramount in the immediate.

Hope that helps.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 4:29 AM, Saturday, July 20th]

Want2BHappyAgain

That said, I know of couples who have come back from the brink post treason and I doff my cap to them, you included. I hope its all you wish for.

I appreciate you writing this...thank you . This is not often the case though for people who have happily reconciled on here. We tend to get posts from people who write that we are deceiving ourselves...that we have settled...and we can't possibly be in as good of a M as we claim we are. There are also many people who have been in R...like I was in my 1st M...who end up right back here when their WS commits adultery again . The odds don't seem to be in the favor of M's like mine!!

I would not lump all situations together. As I said, I personally know of couples who are truly R'd and appear very happy together. In these cases, there was true remorse on tbe part of tbe wayward AND a massive amount of work to repair/restore what had been crushed...the effort of years. Having talked with these couples, there is a mutually agreed upon understanding of trust but verify. Its the new normal and the fws is ok with that. The treason took much from them both and burned much to ash but, as I am wont to say, even ash can be repurposed and mixed into concrete wherewith a new foundation is poured. These people are break through folks.

Having said all of that, for most, infidelity remains a marriage ending event either immediately or in time.

***A word of massive caution. One of the reasons I dug into sites like this some years ago was the loss of a friend due to taking their own life. The reason? They had worked diligently to R after their spouses infidelity. Years later the traitor did it again with someone else and it broke my friend. They were otherwise strong, successful, physically fit, objectively good looking, a good partner and parent....and they are now gone by their own hand.

Ill say it again, traitors are playing russian roulette with their own life, that of their spouse and children AND that of their FBuddy and their spouse and kids (if married obviously). It is despicable.

So, I advise all R'd betrayeds...keep one eye open.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:38 PM, Saturday, July 20th]

Double post

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:08 PM, Saturday, July 20th]

In the greater context of the thread Id clarify and make a finer point of it to say to beware of knee jerk reactions to immediately try and save the marriage and to slow down and look to yourself first and foremost.

Couldn’t agree more. The real danger is how so many betrayed immediately jump behind the wheel of the R bus, effectively squashing most/all incentives for the adulterer to change themselves. The ‘standard’ advice so many give here is more "Hey don’t jump on D right away - that’s permanent and you can never change it!". That sentiment is absurd imo, given how we have concrete examples of a D followed by *successful* R as the treasonous spouse experienced some of the natural consequences of their evil choices and internalized the reality unless they radically change, they will no longer have a relationship with the betrayed.

Filing for D is absolutely no guarantee the betrayer will wake up, but how anyone could argue against it being the best shot at causing them to start to "get it" is beyond me.

The real danger is how so many betrayed immediately jump behind the wheel of the R bus, effectively squashing most/all incentives for the adulterer to change themselves.

IMO, R works best if the WS changes without any incentive. Jumping to D can short-circuit the WS's process.

My W said she was totally confident I would stay if I found out about her A until the last few days before d-day, at which point she realized I might leave. She decided to end the A and give me the truth nevertheless. But whether I left or stayed, she was committed to change. I believe hikingout, BraveSirRobin, and the former WSes who gave me so much hope when I was a new BS all took that attitude on. They decided to start living authentically, whether their BSes chose R or D. (I don't remember WSes who healed and D'ed, but I doubt I'd have noticed.)

The problem with jumping to D is that, IMO, too many BSes choose that because they think that's all they need to do to 'heal.' In fact, healing requires processing the pain, and D alone just doesn't do that. I daresay Bigger has written about that in describing the problems he encountered until he processed old traumas, including a broken engagement. I hope Bigger posts in this thread, because I could be misinterpreting what he's written.

Also, some BSes jump to D as a way of denying their pain. They seem to think that D is like cutting off a limb, and that will stop the pain. It doesn't.

*****

I agree that the BSes who do best are the BSes who act decisively. But the action that counts on d-day isn't D or R. Rather what the BS needs to do is to commit to themselves. IMO, part of that is accepting that they're in a new world and that they better take their bearings, analyze the new data, and make conscious choices about their best course of action.

Some of us do that fast, some not so fast. It always takes more time and energy than anyone thinks it should. But those who don't take the time they need to account for all the new data that gets dumped on them on and after d-day do themselves a disservice.

Also, one's best course of action may be different from what one wants. BSes especially need to take that into account. One can want one thing even when circumstances say they're better off doing something else.

BSes serve themselves best by acting mindfully and not just reacting.

What I have been prone to do and what I can absolutely relate to...

Falling into sunken costs mentality/the mistaken belief of 'fighting for what is yours'/'not wanting to lose' to another man. I'm not positive as to where it comes from, actually. In the relationship that I was cheated on, I sure found myself doing what I could to win my partner back (when she was pulling away in ways unkind but before I knew she was cheating. The signs were classic but I was naive!)

(So on that note, I agree with what @sisoon said about how we need to process old traumas. I am coming to see that infidelity and other situations in relationships, are so painful because they hit on some really sore spots. Example: Someone grows up being sensitive and good in school but not good in sports, and so they may feel less than compared to other boys. If their partner cheats on them, you better believe that will open up some deep old wounds. Even though they may understand that they are 40 and should be well past whatever happened out on the playground when they were kids)

What I see here a lot, keeping in mind that I read mostly the BH threads....

A sort of noble-minded codependence. This certainly includes trying R right away with a WS who is clearly not remorseful and who keeps inflicting more and more pain on her BS with her words and actions that show she clearly does not get it. In the threads that I have participated in, the BH often ends up coaching his WW in addition to doing his best to stay a good husband and father. I think included in this noble-minded codependence is staying so long supposedly for the sake of the kids. I can imagine that this only hurts the kids even more. I mean, they see both parents are unhappy, and furthermore, they have been subject to some really .confusing situations, such as meeting WS's AP. It probably would have been been better for BS to have just gone for a faster D.

sisoon:

I agree that the BSes who do best are the BSes who act decisively. But the action that counts on d-day isn't D or R. Rather what the BS needs to do is to commit to themselves. IMO, part of that is accepting that they're in a new world and that they better take their bearings, analyze the new data, and make conscious choices about their best course of action.

This is absolutely tremendous imo (bolded emphasis mine). I wish I had had the wisdom to take this tack rather than what I have described. Again, I had very little in the way of resource AND kept it all to myself....big mistake.

As I said before, if I could reach back through time and grab young D.T. by the lapels, but who knows? I may have been in to great a state of shock to even process this input.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 7:51 PM, Saturday, July 20th]

***A word of massive caution. One of the reasons I dug into sites like this some years ago was the loss of a friend due to taking their own life. The reason? They had worked diligently to R after their spouses infidelity. Years later the traitor did it again with someone else and it broke my friend. They were otherwise strong, successful, physically fit, objectively good looking, a good partner and parent....and they are now gone by their own hand.

My deepest condolences on the loss of your friend (((HUGS))). I never understood how someone could think that suicide was EVER a choice...until my 2nd H betrayed me after we were married for 28 years . Thankfully I was able to pull myself out of that mire but I certainly see how people feel that is an option...anything to get the PAIN to STOP .

After being on here for almost 10 years...the posters on this site who have ended their lives by their own hand as you say...by the vast majority...have been the Waywards. Was it because they were Waywards? Maybe it was because they were males? Did they not get support that they needed in order to find a solution other than suicide? As you very rightly said...we can't lump all situations together.

So, I advise all R'd betrayeds...keep one eye open.

Thank you for your concern . Blind trust is the one thing I haven't gotten back...and I think that is not a bad thing. This would probably go for everyone though I would think...not just those in R. As the saying goes...don't ever think it can't happen to you.

Blind trust is the one thing I haven't gotten back...and I think that is not a bad thing.

I have learned the only thing I fully trust anymore, is my gut. Infidelity will definitely hone that sense, but not just in my M but when meeting people.

myself WBFA post #28

A sort of noble-minded codependence. This certainly includes trying R right away with a WS who is clearly not remorseful and who keeps inflicting more and more pain on her BS with her words and actions that show she clearly does not get it. In the threads that I have participated in, the BH often ends up coaching his WW in addition to doing his best to stay a good husband and father. I think included in this noble-minded codependence is staying so long supposedly for the sake of the kids. I can imagine that this only hurts the kids even more. I mean, they see both parents are unhappy, and furthermore, they have been subject to some really .confusing situations, such as meeting WS's AP. It probably would have been been better for BS to have just gone for a faster D.

I think related to this is that I see on this forum many many BH "arguing for their pain" so to speak. As in, they have been attempting Reconciliation with a WW who is clearly not remorseful and eating dirt sandwich after dirt sandwich, and have been doing so for years. When you ask them why not just cut yourself free, because life with a WW who does not get it is just not living, they say something to the effect that they can't D. Even though, like 99% of the time, they either ending up D'ing or they stay miserable.

Wait, this thread is about mistakes the NEWLY Betrayed make. I am sorry DoubleTraicion, I got a bit off topic. I would say that the above is strongly connected to the mistake of trying R right away.

WontBeFooledAgai

A sort of noble-minded codependence. This certainly includes trying R right away with a WS who is clearly not remorseful and who keeps inflicting more and more pain on her BS with her words and actions that show she clearly does not get it

I affirm this thought. I probably should have listed this as a separate behavior in my first post but I think that much of what I have described alludes to it anyway.

I have been ruminating on all of these replies this morning and, upon reflection, believe that much of what drove these behaviors was desperation, i.e.:

• Desperate to conduct some kind of damage control

• Desperate to hold on the the vision of what I thought we had.

• Desperate to maintain a stable, cohesive home/family life for my kids

• AND, if I dig really really deep, desperate to not have the fractured, unstable home life that I grew up in.

What Ive learned is that prolonged desparation is a terrible task master, brutal and exhausting.

What I needed was to be inspired once again. To be led by my highest hopes and aspirations, first of all for myself and then for my kids, with or without my fww. To be led, not driven.

This gives credence to the old addage, "You cant grab hold until you let go"........

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 7:52 PM, Sunday, July 21st]

Want2BHappyAgain

My deepest condolences on the loss of your friend (((HUGS))). I never understood how someone could think that suicide was EVER a choice...until my 2nd H betrayed me after we were married for 28 years .

Thank you. I am so very sorry you were brought to the brink of self destruction. I am glad to hear of the good things that are now in your life.

It bears repeating that infidelity gambles with the lives of many. Lives may literally be in tbe balance. Ive heard of life ending actions post betrayal trauma on the part of both the faithful and betraying spouse.

It. Is. Horrible. The ultimate destruction.

In my friends case, there are now children in the wake of this sans one parent.

Unbelievable. And for what?

Im on the verge of a rant and will stop now. I think the point is made.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 9:49 PM, Sunday, July 21st]

I forgot to say:

It's really important for BSes - WSes, too, I guess - to forgive themselves for any 'mistake' they make after d-day.

We aren't trained to deal with betrayal. If anything, we're trained to rug-sweep. We have to blaze our own trail. Wrong turns are almost inevitable. They are not the product of weakness or other failing. Being betrayed is so tremendously disorienting.

If you're BS looking back, wishing you had done something different, so be it. Just forgive yourself while you're at it.

*****

Sunk cost and noble codependence:

I think 'noble co-d' may be the 'interdependence' that is sometimes used as a contrast with co-d.

Yes, sunk costs is a fallacy when financial investments are concerned. It's an analogy WRT relationships, though, and the comparison is less than perfect. One person's sunk cost can be another person's healthy bond/ interdependence, at least in part because motivations are usually mixed.

An example: my W supported me emotionally and financially long ago while I went through a very difficult period. She's co-d, so part of her support came from fear and ulterior motives. That's her problem; I owe her less than nothing for support that came from fear or co-d.

But lots of that support came from love. It was a gift. She gave with no expectation of a return. Since it was a gift, I don't owe her anything, but gifts build bonds. We gave each other a lot during our 44-45 years. We built lots of healthy bonds.

I guess the sunk cost fallacy applies to the extent that one expects a return on investment, I'm pretty sure I believe it doesn't apply to the extent that one gives with no expectation of ROI.

Our sitch was far from universal - my W did the right things from the start - no blameshifting, minimizing, or TT ever. No lies after d-moment. She came clean on d-day; weeks of interrogation filled in details, but revealed nothing that seemed new to me. Nor did she use the bonds to manipulate me into R. We both asked for what we wanted, and we made conscious choices to comply with or reject requests. We never tried to manipulate each other into R - or if one of us did, I didn't notice.

In my mind, we married for better or worse. That implied we'd go through rough times. I don't know what I would have done if W hadn't done the right things on and after d-day. I believe that any sustained blameshifting, minimizing, TT, or lying would have made post-d-day into a much more transactional period.

If my W hadn't done the right things, I suspect the sunk cost fallacy would have become a much bigger consideration for me. Staying with an unremorseful beyond some point would have been a giant red flag WRT my emotional health.

So here's a hypothesis:

If the WS is apparently remorseful - R, even if it fails, is an expression of healthy bonds and, perhaps, 'noble co-d'/ interdependence.

It the WS is unremorseful - R is an expression of sunk cost fallacy or co-d or something else (fear, uncertainty about what one wants, conflict between what one thinks they want and their gut, etc.).

I suspect that the interdependent response to a remorseful WS vs the transactional response to an unremorseful one is related to mixed motivations - on one hand a giver may want to give with no strings attached; onthe other, there are always strings attached.

*****

I totally agree with the proposition that R should not be offered unless and until the WS demonstrates remorse. If one wants R, I think it's healthy to acknowledge that - but knowing one wants R is very different from offering R. R is simply not a gift to give to an unremorseful WS.

Where I differ from some is that I think a decision to D needs a lot of thought, too. IMO, one needs to check themself out very carefully before choosing D.

D-day is not a time for knee-jerk reactions....

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:24 PM, Sunday, July 21st]

Where I differ from some is that I think a decision to D needs a lot of thought, too. IMO, one needs to check themself out very carefully before choosing D.

D-day is not a time for knee-jerk reactions....

Contrary to popular belief (based on what people say they would do in the wake of infidelity), the "knee-jerk" reaction to Dday for the vast majority of people is not divorce... it's reconciliation.

Do I have the exact statistics on hand to back this up? No. But my own experience, witnessing the experiences of others in the real world, and reading thousands of posters from new BSs on SI make it pretty clear that the first instinct BSs have-- even in the most horrific cases-- is "How do we fix this?!"

In the D forum, we frequently get new posters who ask "Did I file to quickly?" Then they describe how they pretty much tried everything they could to single-handedly save the marriage... but because they didn't wait the requisite "3-7 years" (or however long that stupid book says), they feel like they didn't do enough.

So to those people I say, "While I'm sure they probably exist somewhere, I've never met anyone in real life or read about anyone on SI who felt like they divorced their spouse too quickly. But there are legions who deeply regret wasting years and even decades with a cheater."

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:14 PM, Monday, July 22nd]

sissoon:

It's really important for BSes - WSes, too, I guess - to forgive themselves for any 'mistake' they make after d-day.

We aren't trained to deal with betrayal. If anything, we're trained to rug-sweep. We have to blaze our own trail. Wrong turns are almost inevitable. They are not the product of weakness or other failing. Being betrayed is so tremendously disorienting.

If you're BS looking back, wishing you had done something different, so be it. Just forgive yourself while you're at it.

Thanks for another thoughtful reply. This should be posted somewhere prominent for newly betrayed spouses that are floundering and grasping. I find it both realistic and very empathetic.

I will say that I certainly do look back with regret but without rancor or self recrimination. I did the best I could with the knowledge base and wisdom I had at hand which was, to your point, very, very inadequate.

Now this:

Our sitch was far from universal - my W did the right things from the start - no blameshifting, minimizing, or TT ever. No lies after d-moment. She came clean on d-day; weeks of interrogation filled in details, but revealed nothing that seemed new to me. Nor did she use the bonds to manipulate me into R. We both asked for what we wanted, and we made conscious choices to comply with or reject requests. We never tried to manipulate each other into R - or if one of us did, I didn't notice.

In my mind, we married for better or worse. That implied we'd go through rough times. I don't know what I would have done if W hadn't done the right things on and after d-day. I believe that any sustained blameshifting, minimizing, TT, or lying would have made post-d-day into a much more transactional period.

If my W hadn't done the right things, I suspect the sunk cost fallacy would have become a much bigger consideration for me. Staying with an unremorseful beyond some point would have been a giant red flag WRT my emotional health.

I read this with a wistful sigh. I so deeply desired that my fww had shown true, deep remorse, but she was unwilling (unable?) to do so. I kept lowering the bar of my expectations for all of tbe reasons that I listed until the bar was basically at ground level. As I said, I was foolish to do this.

I totally agree with the proposition that R should not be offered unless and until the WS demonstrates remorse. If one wants R, I think it's healthy to acknowledge that - but knowing one wants R is very different from offering R. R is simply not a gift to give to an unremorseful WS.

Where I differ from some is that I think a decision to D needs a lot of thought, too. IMO, one needs to check themself out very carefully before choosing D.

D-day is not a time for knee-jerk reactions....

I agree with this majoratively. The only caveat being if the couple had had thoroughly discussed that D would be the defaultt immediate action should either commit marital treason. We have had a number of pisters here and on other sites that did just that, both faithful wives and husbands, and proceeded directly to D. What is stunning, in a lot of ways, is the shock many of the betraying spouses expressed when served and the emotional breakdown/travail that they demonstrated post D onset. Cognitive dissonance hang-over maybe??? There are many others of course who couldnt give a flip as it was an exit affair for them anyway.

Thanks again.

Thanks for asking. If you want context of my learning, my story is in my profile.

Here are a few things I think I’ve learned. And still learning I guess.

1. my happiness is important. I feel like I was trained all my life to put everyones needs before myself. I put my kid's everything in front of me, my husband, my job, friends in need. I stopped thinking that my needs were important. I put my cheaters happiness ahead of mine, I made excuses for my cheater, so he would be happy, I accepted bad behaviors, or didn’t see them because I wanted him to be happy. I will never do that again. I need to be selfish about my happiness and my mental health, so that I can be supportive of the people I love.

2. do not trust blindly, trust based on actions, not your emotions,. I trusted my husband even when he was cheating. I still trusted my husband after I found out he was cheating. For multiple years I trusted him by default, and after I learned of the affair, I would catch myself doing this and adjust my perspective. My trust with him was a habit. When I lost this deep trust in him -and it took a lot for me to lose this trust-, I lost it for a lot of people. I now trust less, and when I do give trust, I watch actions.

3 let go of the anger after it’s done its job. I am often still angry. I can sabotage myself because of that anger. I don’t like some of my behaviours because I default to anger. If you’re like this, let it go. I am working every day to find the calm. It’s not easy. Don’t get comfortable in the anger.

4 sometimes marriages fail and that’s OK. Somehow, I had the belief that if I failed in marriage, I failed in life. No one said this to me. But I believed it. I did not want to become a divorced woman. I did not want my kids to become children of divorced parents. My fear of failure also blinded me in my marriage. I probably would’ve stayed married and miserable if not for the affair. So in someways, I should really appreciate the affair. Well I’m still getting my act together, I am actually happier, being single, and alone than I was being miserable and alone in my marriage. And my kids are happier too. I would never advocate that anyone stay in an unhappy marriage, because it makes for a very unhappy family. I now know how much my kids saw (and regret it) and I wish I had been stronger before and ended the marriage much sooner. I did myself no favours through my beliefs. I want to get to the point where I can say. I am proudly single.

I hope this resonates, I hope someone can save themselves some pain by embracing all with the shared learnings. Thank you for this thread.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 4:22 PM, Monday, July 22nd]

^^^This what BluerThanBlue said, absolutely. (TallGirl you made some good points too. Sorry for the ambiguity, we cross-posted)

I also have seen, in one direction, many BS get into the Reconciliation track BY DEFAULT by holding off on a decision and staying with the WS. As in they see their WS every morning at the breakfast table and 'she said she was sorry and there are your kids around so you gonna keep staying mad at her Bub?'. And then the poor BS keeps getting his heart crushed again and again when said WS keeps saying and doing stuff that indiciates she does not get it. HORRIBLE.

We have also seen, in the other direction, time and time again WS running around like a scalded cat to try to fix things in those instances where BS makes a dramatic so-called rash action and presses immediately for D. The WS is nowhere near Remorse yet but at least they have ardently started their journey. It is oftentimes the BS's rash and strong response that seems to give the impetus for the WS to get it faster.

I do think in general SI is a bit too pro-R, or should I say, too optimistic about R. There is a tendency to peddle a certain amount of 'mental gymnastics' as to why the WS cheated and 'maybe this can be fixed'--in some cases where the level of blantant disrespect on the part of the WS is still on-going and extreme(!!), instead of telling the BS that his house is on fire and he needs to *get out* NOW. I often post on here to address the no-doubt well-meaning but IMO harmful takes. But I am digressing a bit here.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 1:05 AM, Tuesday, July 23rd]

BluerThanBlue

Where I differ from some is that I think a decision to D needs a lot of thought, too. IMO, one needs to check themself out very carefully before choosing D.

D-day is not a time for knee-jerk reactions....

Contrary to popular belief (based on what people say they would do in the wake of infidelity), the "knee-jerk" reaction to Dday is not divorce... it's reconciliation.

Do I have the exact statistics on hand to back this up? No. But my own experience, witnessing the experiences of others in the real world, and reading thousands of posters from new BSs on SI make it pretty clear that the first instinct the vast majority of BSs have-- even in the most horrific cases-- is "How do we fix this?!"

In the D forum, we frequently get new posters who ask "Did I file to quickly?" Then they describe detail how they pretty much tried everything they could to single-handedly save the marriage... with the exception of sitting around waiting for their WS to dislodge their heads from their rectum.

So to those people I say, "While I'm sure they probably exist somewhere, I've never met anyone in real life or read about anyone on SI who felt like they divorced their spouse too quickly. But there are legions who deeply regret wasting years and even decades with a cheater."

Wow. I cant think of a better bookend to sissoons most recent reply and my commentary on it (bolded emphasis mine). Truly.

As to the knee jerk reaction being R, this was exactly my experience. Again, my yound children weight very heavily on my mind and the fact that I lived in a no fault divorce state with all of the financial ramifications certainly played its part.

I am certainly one amongst the "legions who deeply regret wasting years and even decades with a cheater" (in my case a decade).

I too am very happily remarried to a wonderful woman who is also a brutal betrayal survivor so we may have a much clearer and firmly set resolve concerning infidelity than many.