SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all

Looking for opinions, thoughts and advice.

My partner and I have been together for 15+ years. We have a little boy and I’ve always felt the luckiest person with perfect little family.

This came crashing down around 4 months ago when I discovered my partner had been having an affair with a coworker. I did have my suspicions around 4 months prior to this and asked if anything was going on and was told "of course not" "it’s all in your head" "don’t be ridiculous" etc. I believed her and then around 4 months later discovered messages on her computer which confirmed my previous suspicions.

I confronted her. She initially denied it before eventually coming clean to an affair over the previous 7 months. It started as an emotional affair but developed to physical shortly before I had initially asked her about my suspicions. She said she wanted to be with me and that she wouldn’t talk to the AP and make attempts to cut interaction at work.

Since then we have been working through it. We’ve had the roller coaster ride of emotions and set backs which have been predominantly because of her continued lies to me. She initially told me they were only physical on two occasions. This then gradually increased as she revealed more. She originally said they only ever met up at work or the hotel they’d be physical, but this then increased to shopping days and play dates with my boy and the APs son (AP is also married). She originally said it was just emotion for her but then said she was falling in love with him. I’ve continually said how the books, podcasts etc. say that full transparency and honesty is the way to build trust but she doesn’t seem to be understanding this. She feels it’s just hurting me more despite me saying that it’s so much more hurtful when it gets revealed at a later date.

Fast forward to present day and I’ve felt we have been moving forward. I’ve began to think less and less about him and her and focus on our future. She’s been attending therapy, as have I, and she wrote a letter to him on the advice of the therapist to put closure to the affair but she said it was one she just burned as part of the therapy. She’s been saying how it was all a fantasy and how this is what she wants and how she was in the affair fog.

However, yesterday I asked the question of "have you really not had any contact with him since I found out" and it was met with a very long silence. She then said that she did email him shortly after I found out to say she wanted to focus on her family and to set out the days she would be working in the office so that he could avoid that. The frustrating part is that this seems like a really positive reassuring step that she could have involved me in and told me about and I wouldn’t have been worried. It got worse though. I then asked if there was anything else and she then said she did in fact send him the closure letter but didn’t ask for any response from him. She then admitted to messaging him at the start of the New Year because she felt she never had closure on the affair and had a load of unanswered questions. Apparently he didn’t want to engage in the conversation or answer her questions. We argued, I asked why she couldn’t talk to me and kept running to him for answers. Two hours later she admitted to messaging him once a week since the New Year. She then admitted to messaging him daily the past week. The questions she’d been wanting him to answer to give "closure" were things like "do you still think about us", "do you wish we met at a different time in our lives", "do you crave my attention as much as I crave yours", "tell me it was real for you too and I’m not crazy." Notwithstanding the questions she’s now asking, the continued lies just feels like death by a thousand cuts.

This has all just completely set me back in any recovery and I don’t see how I can ever trust her again. To me it’s clear she’s still in love with him and doesn’t want to be with me at all. How can she restart the affair but say she wants to be with me and it’s not about him. How can she want to know the answer to these questions and not say she doesn’t want to be with him. She’s now saying she was being selfish and just wanted to know she didn’t mess up our family for the sake of nothing but I can’t understand why she would go through the destructive action of reaching out to him and not just live with that unknown and instead focus on us and our future. I have so many unanswerable questions that I have to push through every day "why did she do this", "how could she do this to our son", "am I second choice" yet I’m willing to fight for us. She clearly isn’t.

I think it’s at the end of the road for us now which devastates me because of the heart break of losing my world and impact on my poor boy. Help.

[This message edited by HeadPhoneBear at 4:55 PM, Wednesday, January 22nd]

Your wife is still having an affair.

Do you have solid enough proof to send to AP’s wife? If so, do that immediately, both for your sake and hers.

There’s no way to move forward until your wife gets her head out of her ass.

Maybe take your son for a short trip, a couple of days, without her. See if she misses him. Because that’s her future if she doesn’t come to her senses.

Your partner is in the affair fog. Google it snd it can help you understand her mindset.

Clearly she was or is in love with the AP. She’s reaching out most likely to see if she can re/start the affair. Or to verify her suspicions that she was merely being used by him (which may be what she fears now).

I’m so sorry for you. I went down this road.

It only stopped when I turned my back on my Cheating Husband and kicked him to the curb with plans to Divorce him.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:04 AM, Sunday, January 26th]

Sorry, got interrupted earlier.

Read "Women’s Infidelity: Living in Limbo" by Michele Langley. Two books, quick reads. Available on a website she has. They described my WW exactly, and may give you some idea what you’re up against.

Go talk to a lawyer. You don’t have to do anything, yet, but it’s good to get "the lay of the land."

And I don’t agree that your wife is in love with AP. She’s in lust, in infatuation, in validation, in attention gathering. None of that is love.

She’s going to blame you. Don’t believe it.

The affair is still clearly active. I think she only wants to be with you because her won't commit to her. You are plan B. You have nothing to work with here because she clearly has no remorse. She might regret getting caught, but that is all. I think your best path forward is to start the divorce procedure. You can always stop it if she gets her act together. She needs to looking very hard for a new job. All contact with AP must stop before reconciliation has any chance. Get tested for STDs. Find the APs wife and inform her about the affair. That is your best chance of killing the affair. Clearly the AP is not interested in a relationship. He was probably only in it for the sex. He may also have other active side pieces. If you start the divorce process, tell her it is because she is giving you no alternative. No matter what she does, the trust may never come back which clearly makes divorce the best option.

Sorry you had to find this site. Check out the Healing Library here. Pay particular attention to the simplified 180. Read the pinned posts at the top of this forum.

If the AP’s betrayed wife has not been told about the affair that needs to happen. Don’t rely on your wayward wife’s word that this has happened and don’t tell her you’re going to do this.

Your WW very obviously needs to choose between her job and your marriage. If contact continues the affair continues.

If you haven’t already, consult with a lawyer or three to see what divorce looks like for you.

Welcome to SI and I'm sorry that your WW (wayward wife) is continuing to lie to you. You'll find that cheaters lie and then they lie some more. There are some posts pinned to the top of the thread as well as some with bull's eye icons that we encourage new members to read. The Healing Library has a lot of information, too.

Please be tested for STDs/STIs as there are some nasty diseases out there. If you're having trouble sleeping or with depression, ask your doctor for some meds. They can be helpful to get you through the initial phase of pain.

If you can, IC (individual counseling) with a betrayal trauma specialist can be helpful.

We often say it isn't always the A (affair) but the behavior after that helps the BS (betrayed spouse) decide it's over. And the confession yesterday would reset your healing clock back to 0.

This post is a lot of longer than I originally intended, but please bear with me. It pains me to read about a man fumbling through the fog that is the aftermath of Dday, and so I wanted to give you comprehensive advice on a decisive action you could take to move forward along and a clearer picture of what you could expect afterward.

There is one thing your wayward partner (WP) is being completely honest about, which is that she's selfish. She wants to pursue a relationship with OM but still keep you as a safety net. So if you want to stop your WP from having her cake and eating it too, you need to close the bakery.

The best way to do this is to contact OM's wife (other betrayed spouse [OBS])and inform her about the affair. OBS deserves to know the truth about her own life and have the opportunity to get tested for STDs in as timely a manner as possible (after all, this might not be OM's or WP's first rodeo). If OBS doesn't already know about the affair, she might have suspicions and be suffering from the same doubts and confusion about her relationship that you did before Dday. She's also entitled to know who her husband has been bringing around her son.

If you're worried that telling OBS might end their marriage and free him up to run into your WP's arms, I can almost guarantee you that won't happen. If what your WP said about his recent behavior is even remotely true, he's already lost interest in her; any minimal contact he's maintained is just to placate her. But the minute he's exposed, he will treat your wife like radioactive waste and go into overdrive to save his marriage and his job.

In the immediate aftermath of exposure, your WP will most likely lash out like a meth head cut off from her supply. She's going to paint you as the villain who caused her to have an affair and vindictively hurt OM and his OBS. Whatever you do, do not accept the invitation to her self-pity party nor one ounce of blame for the consequences of her choices.

Eventually, the shock will wear off and your WP will be faced with the realization that she blew up her life for nothing. At that point, it's likely she will be pull out all the stops to keep you from leaving, such as making grandiose promises, offering you frequent and passionate sex on demand, drawing on your long shared history, laying on guilt about how breaking up will harm your son, etc. Most importantly, she's going to try to convince you that you were never Plan B and it was all just fantasy... even though all of her actions throughout the affair and up to now ("play dates" with the OM and the boys, begging him for reassurance that their love was real, etc) clearly indicate that she would've seriously considered leaving you for him if he offered her that opportunity.

The most important thing to keep in mind throughout all of this is that she is not the prize here; you are. Her choices are not a measure of your value as a man, partner, and father; they are an expression of her poor character. And although you can't control what she does or doesn't do, you can control what you're willing to tolerate.

It’s at this point you should stop trying to rebuild with someone who is still in love with another man.

If it were me I’d tell her "your feelings for him obviously are more than they are for me. You can’t even stay away from him after hurting your spouse who you vowed to love honor cherish and protect.

I think it’s best we begin the process to separate and legally end the marriage that your choices have destroyed.

Until someday that you have worked in individual therapy for at least a year to fix what is broken with you, and you have gotten him out of your heart body mind and soul, and you are completely no contact with him including no longer working at the same company as him, will I be willing even to discuss further the position of trying again with you.

I wish you well finding the happiness you were looking for and couldnt find with me.
I will now move on without you to heal from the pain this has caused me."

Then work on yourself. You can’t make her stop pursuing him and focus on you so stop trying. Work with a trauma therapist and a lawyer right now. It’s the only path you have to happiness until she completes what I outlined above. She’s not ready for you and definitely not a safe partner. Trying with her is basically n feasible if you rug sweep what has happened and basically if you agree to be in a one side open marriage with her.

I hope you will consider what I and others here are trying to tell you.

Good luck.

My story is basically identical except I went through a affair recovery program, a yr of marriage counseling, and individual counseling, while she was in counseling as well. I found out she kept lying. Unfortunately she is showing you who she is and it's pretty damn brazen exposing your son to the AP. I hate to be cynical but I wouldn't be shocked if this is her 1st affair. I would almost guarantee theirs been an emotional affair in the past. People prone to limmerance in affair are also linked to other personality issues that are not so healthy for sustainable long-term relationships. People often chalk limmerance up to infatuation it's not. Infatuation doesn't involve lying, deceit, and gaslighting. These unsavory things also stoke the fires of limmerance in an affair. She brought these personal issues into your relationship when you met her boss, so don't let her or anyone else put this on you. For me there was only so much discardeding and disrespect I could take. Like most you don't ever hear about their un happy until they decide they want to spice their life up and then get into it way to far. The tendencies for her were always there and now you know how much she values your marriage and safety of your family. I was married for 20 yrs and divorce was scary. I lost alot. Most of it was inconsequential in reality. The things I thought I lost which seemed really important at the time a secure family, marriage, and well planned for future....I later realized I never truly had. On dday #1 I told her that if she wanted to pursue that life with him she was free to do so. I would make it as amicable as could be. Time and time again she said she chose me - actions speak louder than words. Buying into they have their head up their ass narrative doesn't sit well with me. Each cheater especially one who continues to do so got into the affair with the same head and issues they got into the relationship with you. It's a pretty damn broken operating system 😢 No one can advise you on what to do about divorce. That's your personal choice you need to 100 own. I let you know what I've learned. If she says something that seems like bullshit - it is. No matter how hard you want to or try to fix her issues - you can't. There is nothing special about the AP - it could have been any dude with the same mindset and a few triggers. You're the prize so respect and treat yourself as such. If you're going to take her back, please understand the risk. It's difficult for cheaters to change most don't. Even if she transforms to a loyal spouse, it's not certain she will transform into a loyal loving spouse who will be 100 remorseful. Cheating is extremely disrespectful, and this is often even more difficult for men to deal with. Continued cheating is a whole other of disrespect after she has seen how bad that has hurt you. Do you have a plan in place to truly transform that so it doesn't haunt you for the rest of your life? It's a uphill battle and almost impossible without a partner equally willing to climb the mountain. I certainly don't know every reconciliation success story out there i.e., the happy thriving relationship 2.0. But the ones I do know of - the cheater was 100 committed and more than out worked their spouse to climb the reconciliation mountain. Peace be with you brother. This is hell either way you can be better on the otherside.

Thanks everyone for comments so far. All very insightful, useful and greatly appreciated.

I have read about the affair fog and from what she's told me I do believe this is what she was in. I understand a bit more now that this can last for many months and cause her to continue the deceit. What I can't understand (and what makes me think the fog is just a crap excuse) is how she can see how hurt I have been and the devastation she's caused to our family, and then still go and contact him and betray me again even if she believes it's to get herself closure.

For now, I'm definitely going to be taking time apart. Planning out how we split time with our boy and go from there. She certainly needs to choose between job or marriage too. Hopefully she can come to that conclusion on her own but it'll be telling if she doesn't I guess.

I haven’t done drugs or cheated, so I don’t have first-hand knowledge, but many compare the dopamine rush they got from cheating to a drug high.

A heroin addict knows each hit is a bad thing, but they can’t help themselves, until they do the very hard work to get clean.

Maybe your wife is in the same boat.

But, read those books. Ending the affair and coming back to you are two different things.

Taking time out just means more free time to be with him.

I mean they work together, why hasn't she quit?
Why haven't you notified the APs wife?
Why are you choosing to keep believing a wife who's proved time and again her lack of moral character?
What have been her consequences besides 20 questions every few hours?

You keep throwing the ball in her court, maybe it's time to stop the game playing. You're both adults and actions have consequence. Maybe then she might take you seriously if you stop throwing the ball into her court.

What I can't understand (and what makes me think the fog is just a crap excuse) is how she can see how hurt I have been and the devastation she's caused to our family, and then still go and contact him and betray me again even if she believes it's to get herself closure.

Your judgement on this is 100% correct, which is that the "affair fog" is a bullshit excuse. The only reason the affair hasn't continued is because OM didn't want your WP anymore. She wasn't looking for closure from him; she was pursuing him. She's still lying to you and, perhaps, lying to herself.

Worst of all, she brought your son around the AP and made him a party to her betrayal of you, which is absolutely despicable. You have no idea who this scumbag is and what he's capable of. There was a BH (HellIsNotHalfFull) whose WW shacked up with her OM while her BH was deployed, and OM physical and psychologically abused their young son. The BH had no idea this happened until the poor boy broke down one day and told him everything. And even after this all came to light, his WW still broke contact with the OM and continued their affair.

So if you want to know what it's like spending years trying to reconcile with a woman who is in love with another man, I highly recommend that you look up his threads. The advantage you have in your situation vs his is that you have only 1 child and (assuming you're in the US) you have fewer legal/financial hoops to jump through to separate from her since you're not married.

Again, I must warn you: when she sees you starting to detach from her-- especially if you do what I advised and contact OM's wife, ending any hope of rekindling her relationship with OM-- she's going to pull out all the stops to hoover you back in. It's going to take a tremendous amount of willpower and emotional fortitude to set boundaries and resist the blitzkrieg of lovebombing she will rain down upon you. If you're not familiar with the term lovebombing, I recommend you Google it, so you're better prepared for what's to come.

But the absolute biggest mistake you can make would be take her back without any conditions or work required on her part. She will never respect a man she thinks she can control and manipulate, and you will never respect yourself if you allow it.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:45 PM, Thursday, January 23rd]

On my way out, so briefly:

1. Gently Inform the other man's wife, she deserves to know. Most likely he will throw your wife under the bus.

2. Time apart means your wife can freely meet with the other man. I would consult with an attorney ASAP before you leave the house.

3. She needs to find another job.

Sorry you find yourself here.

Thanks again everyone for the messages. I respect every single view and am so appreciative of everyone taking the time to provide advice.

After reading through various threads, articles etc I believe there is a spectrum in all of this. At one end of the spectrum (call it the left) is someone caught up in this affair fog that made them feel slightly better but who is ultimately an unwell person with clear low self esteem issues that caused them to make devastating decisions without thinking of the consequences (I sadly have experience of losing someone to suicide so I understand that being mentally unwell can cause you to make devastating choices). At the other end (right) is someone who wants to be with the AP but doesn't want to be alone and therefore is intentionally stringing the marriage along as a safety net.

I'm in the place where I do believe my partner is towards the left side. She did have post partum depression which she struggled with and only told me about 9 months after birth. She has definite relationship issues with her Dad and a need to please him. Apparently this transferred to me and she needed to be the person she thought I wanted her to be and I would judge her for struggling after the birth of our boy.

I know I may be being naive, and probably have my own confidence issues after all this, but the person I've known for the last 15 years is never someone I would say is at the far right of the above spectrum. I know I must own this decision, and I know I may regret it and get hurt. But I know I will want to look my boy in the eye when he's older and say I did genuinely try to make it work.

But I'm only willing to do that if it's on my terms and she shows in her actions that she's willing to put the work in. Time will tell...

the person I've known for the last 15 years is never someone I would say is at the far right of the above spectrum

You seem to be saying you know her so well, so you know where she lands. Having known her so well, did you envision all this adultery?

Of course not. You’re like the rest of us. The woman you THOUGHT you knew is an illusion. Like a mirage in the desert. What’s so destabilizing about such d-days is that you’re suddenly forced to see what you were SO SURE was reality, in fact is NOT reality. You never in a million years expected she was even capable of screwing some other guy, even once. Now you learn she not only did repeatedly, but that her dream was to dump you and run away with him. That’s why she brought him around your kid - she was testing him out as a replacement/step-dad.

I know that hurts like hell. You have no choice but to admit to yourself you simply don’t know this woman like you thought. And yes, that means stop assuming the best about her, dreaming of things to excuse the THOUSANDS of evil choices she made. We get it. So many have been right where you are now, and instinctively we do the precise wrong things since we’re so desperate to get back to where you thought your reality was. Hence, rug-sweeping. Excuse making. Various manifestations of denial. Fear of upsetting the adulterer. Minimization. Keeping everything on the down-low.

The first thing you simply must do is get yourself to a place where you are 100% convinced you’ll be ok without her. I don’t think you’re there. I’m not saying you must immediately D, but here’s some harsh reality: unless and until you get to a place where you have 100% truth, 100% remorse (learn what this is - she’s NOT remotely close to that), and 100% commitment on her part to NEVER contact him ever again, and willing to crawl over broken glass for the better part of a decade to save this M, you have ZERO chance of getting to a truly reconciled marriage. Sure, you can stay together, but you will forever suffer the effects of an unsafe wife, who could absolutely do this again. She needs utter transformation in her character. Precious few ever get there.

Do you have a therapist? If so, I would inquire about codependency and self worth in all of this.

You seem to be saying you know her so well, so you know where she lands. Having known her so well, did you envision all this adultery?

Absolutely not. That’s my point and why I believe it is due to her own suffering. Hurt people, hurt people. On the flip side, I can think of a few exes that are definitely on the right of the scale I’ve described

I hear what you’re saying though. And by the way I’m not making any decisions about reconciling or moving on. I was just expressing the conclusions I’d reached after reading the resources. I’m definitely going to be sure she’s in this for us and showing it before allowing her back in my life.

As for me. I am ready to move on if that’s the route this goes. I know my worth, I’m the prize. Rightly or wrongly, I’ve thought in my head about the differences me and WS hold and how it would be with someone more closely aligned on some of those things. But, equally, i never begrudged the different interest or hobbies and saw them as our own space. Sadly she saw it as selfish rather than self care!

[This message edited by HeadPhoneBear at 11:44 PM, Friday, January 24th]

As for me. I am ready to move on if that’s the route this goes. I know my worth, I’m the prize.

Awesome to hear! Keep repeating that as a mantra to yourself. There will come times where you may be tempted to loosen your grip on this foundational truth. Don’t.

Maybe take this

She’s now saying she was being selfish and just wanted to know she didn’t mess up our family for the sake of nothing

And ask her if he did respond affirmatively to her questions would that have made messing up your family worth it? Because that is essentially what she is saying. If he did actually have feelings for her and confirmed them then totally worth it? Is that really the message she wants to convey if she is serious about reconciliation with you?

IMO she is only going to (maybe) wake up to the devastating reality if smacked with some harsh consequences to her choices. Daily messages is not a relapse. That’s an active affair. Even if one sided.